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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6584

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dave wrote:
north country boy wrote:
Lads I hate agreeing with Nic on here but you're deluding yourselves if you think anything other than 2-1 flattered us on Sunday. They were the far better team over the 90 minutes.

It used to do my head in watching Moyes every week, doing the exact same thing but expecting different results... its similar with Jose's approach to playing against the top 6 now; his approach doesn't work in the big games anymore. He's set up against Pep three times now in the league at United and the results have been 1-2, 1-2 and 0-0. 1 point out of 9. Not good enough.

I wouldn't mind but I actually think we've the players to go toe to toe with them, like we showed for brief spells on Sunday. I fear its getting to a stage now though where Jose has such a complex about Pep that he's just terrified of getting beat by him, and it seeps down to the players.

It was like watching Stoke/Burnley/WBA in the 1st half on Sunday, pumping long ball after long ball up to a striker with no confidence whatsoever, was completely uninspiring stuff and sucked the life out of the game and the crowd. Yeah we've improved since LVG but is that the bare minimum now - Once its better than what LVG served up then we all have to accept it? Not for me anyway.


Completely agree. I don't get this "well we're dull and defensive, but at least it's better then LVG!" line. I don't wanna be dull and defensive at all, thanks.

But it's not just against Pep. It's most of our rivals. We go into every big match on the back foot, seemingly terrified we'll get slaughtered if we open up. We're a mega-rich team of talented players trying to prove we deserve to be up there, I simply can't accept approaching these games like plucky underdogs punching above their weight in the cup. Especially when it's not even working.



the Jose fan club must be having their tea,

i'm sure they'll be along soon to tell you 3 how wrong you are.
and that you're acting like spoilt brats expecting anything better than what we have Wink
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3411

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuck you cuntcakes, it’ll be be a cold day in hell before I agree with the Purple Twatwaffle.
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Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6584

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
Fuck you cuntcakes, it’ll be be a cold day in hell before I agree with the Purple Twatwaffle.



lol Laughing
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Red Snow



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 2141
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm inclined to agree with NCB here. City were way better, but not as good as Nic probably thinks they are. I never loved Jose and his style but it has been undeniably extremely effective. We can only trust it turns out that way.

Jackl - I can only hope I'm misreading you here and in fairness your wording is very faulty.

"I can recall sitting at Wembley in the CL final in 2011 and thinking then the same as against City on Sunday, I.e if only our players were good enough not to become intimidated by this carousel and trusted themselves more you need optimum not maximum possession to beat it. "

Maybe we watched different matches but I can't see how all the optimism in the universe would have mattered. We were thoroughly outclassed that night.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1000
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are if you read optimum for optimism!
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Red Snow



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 2141
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackl wrote:


I can recall sitting at Wembley in the CL final in 2011 and thinking then the same as against City on Sunday, I.e if only our players were good enough not to become intimidated by this carousel and trusted themselves more you need optimum not maximum possession to beat it. I think Monaco showed that last season.



This is the bit I was referring to.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Snow wrote:
Jackl wrote:


I can recall sitting at Wembley in the CL final in 2011 and thinking then the same as against City on Sunday, I.e if only our players were good enough not to become intimidated by this carousel and trusted themselves more you need optimum not maximum possession to beat it. I think Monaco showed that last season.



This is the bit I was referring to.


Okay. I think it part of the point. We can and could hold the ball better as shown by Rooney's superb equaliser after going one down from an easily defendable Pedro goal. We then sat back as we did on Sunday and succumbed to a Messi goal and then a Villa one. If we had trusted ourselves to go forward more we may have acquitted ourselves better.

I don't say we would have won. Scholes came on too late and SAF didn't help with leaving out two good ball players in Berba and Nani who would have kept possession. I think Psrk was left out too. I don't make a parallel of that and Sunday but i see similarities.

City certainly are ahead of us at the moment and Jose doesnt have a great head to head against Pep but it tends to improve with time. When he went to Real he got beat 5-0 in his first Clasico in 2011 but he persevered and toppled Barca for Real's first title for years and he laid the foundation of the present team and it's CL success.

At Inter he came up against Pep four times, lost out in the CL group stages in 2009 but in the semi final in 2020 Inter beat them 3-1 at home in an excellent counter-attacking match and lost only 1-0 away with ten men. Optimum possession is what you need to get the job done.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, that was of course 2010 the year Inter won the CL.
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tafkaf



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 6287

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting long read about City.

"the level of conceptualisation of the business model was zero”..... I just love when marketing gets involved. Lol.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/15/manchester-city-football-group-ferran-soriano
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4373

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the level of conceptualisation of the business model was zero

What does that mean ? Really what does it mean ?
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