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Another embaressment
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2397
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:09 pm    Post subject: Another embaressment Reply with quote

Of our 7 league defeats, 3 have come from promoted teams and another from a team pretry much relegated!! It's fucking horrendous.

Jose can be blamed for boring tactics, but he cant do anything when the players can't play simple passes or move off the ball.

These players clearly cannot get themselves motivated for 'lesser' teams and fail to motivate/inspire each other. I'm not conviced there is a single 'United' player amongst them. Apart from DDG, every single one of them go missing for a large portion of games.

Some of them had so much to play for tonight. Martial and Rashford in particular. I am always moaning they don't get a fair chance. They get that chance tonight and do that?

Rolling Eyes
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1116
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In truth there is nothing to play for. None of the players in that selection will buy into the tired old hype that they're playing for a cup final place And they still have a five point cushion on 2nd. They know that team is set in stone barring injuries so why risk one? The shame is they can't perform for all those fans who make a 500 mile round trip.

SAF was never particularly into records. Win the season with five games spare the fringe players go in, he gave relegation threatened sides a chance to beat that selection and quite often they did. As he didn't often come second in a situation where we weren't going to the wire I guess we don't know how he would react in this situation but I suspect he wouldn't be overly bothered.

I don't think we can read too much into it but I'm glad I'm out of the country and not in the away end.
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tafkaf



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 6411

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuck records, that was just a joke. jesus I know it's kinda dead but basic football should be expected, no? lol

Is Pogba on the ketamine in Manchester's clubs or something?
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocking.

We just don't have the determination or flair to breakdown two banks of four.

But maybe it was a flat game, no real upside for us, a cup final coming and a very well organized Brighton side.
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you hear Gary Neville say something like " Fellaini was terrible.."
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4492

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for posing again.

But I have just listened to the post match press talk and read the newspapers and they say he is blaming the bit part players.

Whilst Rashford doesn't generally start he is hardly a stranger to the first team and other than Darmian, we didn't lose the game a right back, Rojo and Fellani - that was pretty much the first choice team wasn't it.

Maybe he now prefers Herrera over Mata, and Linguard over Martial - but it was hardly our reserve team.


He, Jose, must take some blame for the lack of commitment.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6747

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would guess the players last night earn on average £50,000 a week. Thats fifty fucking thousand pounds a week .

They are paid to fucking entertain but as much as anything they should at least fucking give a fuck and try.

Watching someone like pogba flounce about taking on 4 players in midfield because he is so wonderful makes me sick. These fuckers literally pick and choose when or if the can be arsed to show up. And that's shocking.

Tactically I am baffled why we need matic and fellaini. But frankly it's so embarrassing I've almost stopped caring , at times I wish I could stop caring altogether..... 😟😟 that's how shite we can be at the moment🤢
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't argue with anyone who saw it. I had the opportunity to go out and watch it but chose not which either speaks for itself or reveals that I had a premonition of a Friday night dead rubber for us at least on the south coast.

It is wrong for Jode to criticise Martial and Rashford. It wasn't even implicit because of his references to Lukaku and Sanchez. That is simply undermining them without any positive side effect.

Obviously he played Fellaini because he is trying to persuade him to stay and he is not going to criticise him for the same resson. He hasn't picked out Pogba either because he daren't undermine his own 90m signing further. He has no other creative midfielder.

Thus you have a team where some get excessive and largely undeserved praise and others are dismissed peremptorily no matter how hard they try. The approach seems to have worked with some like Herrera and Lingard but not with others like Shaw, Martial and now possibly Rashford. There is a lot of the bully in it and maybe that is why it seems so reprehensible. All great managers have this. Mr Nice Guy Pep has been a total bastard to players like Hart and Toure. We know how SAF became with Becks and Stam and Keano in the end. Berba too, Ruud when he spotted the growing conflict with Ronnie, Rooney when his body couldn't overcome his excesses.

I suppose the question is, is Jose's method any worse or do you look at that example and say he has to have the time to get the group he wants and that may mean accepting a couple of his own choices have been wrong (Mkhi being the prime example of one already admitted failure).
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2397
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackl wrote:
In truth there is nothing to play for. None of the players in that selection will buy into the tired old hype that they're playing for a cup final place And they still have a five point cushion on 2nd. They know that team is set in stone barring injuries so why risk one? The shame is they can't perform for all those fans who make a 500 mile round trip.

SAF was never particularly into records. Win the season with five games spare the fringe players go in, he gave relegation threatened sides a chance to beat that selection and quite often they did. As he didn't often come second in a situation where we weren't going to the wire I guess we don't know how he would react in this situation but I suspect he wouldn't be overly bothered.

I don't think we can read too much into it but I'm glad I'm out of the country and not in the away end.

I don't buy into the 'nothing to play for' argument. They are playing for their Man Utd careers in some cases. They are playing to finish above the dippers, playing for a chance to play in a cup final or at least to prove why they should be considered for the squad, playing to salvage a bit of pride, playing to earn their £100,000pw, but most importantly, playing for their supporters. If a player thinks just one of them things are not worth playing for, they need to go.

If it was a one off game perhaps it could be excused but these performances have been common. Huddersfield, Newcastle, WBA, Brighton. Not to mention other games, like Palace where we got a bit lucky. We couldn't get motivated for any of them.

For me the biggest frustration is my constant complaining about Rashford and Martial being overlooked. I've even taken a battering on here about our signing of Zlatan, 'coz I preferred to see those two leading the attack.
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tafkaf



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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fear we won’t have both of those players next season.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jose said himself he couldn't motivate them enough to think second was important. I feel he was wrong not to make it plain that this was not aimed at Rashford. I feel it was more likely aimed at Martial and Pogba.

I don't think Rashford needs much motivating. He does need service. From what I have seen he produced a couple of moments last night. I am confident he will be here. He is in a bit of a Welbeck moment but Jose has said he wouldn't have let him go either. Rashford is much better and he needs to watch and learn.

I am less confident about Martial. He can cut a very frustrating figure and his head does drop. He is a great talent but a mercurial one and this may not be his stage. I would prefer that not to be the case as I think he could thrive under a different regime but it is noticeable that he is not the water carrier's go-to player either. He should be lighting up his national team but is often used from the bench. It is not all about Jose.
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1999



Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDG apart, I wouldn't be arsed if any of those who played last night were gone in the summer - and that includes Rashford.

edit: I'd keep Lingard too.
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Last edited by 1999 on Sat May 05, 2018 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Dave



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1460

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't sit through the match last night (or indeed - in an attempt to preserve my sanity - any league game since we did the Scousers almost two months ago), but from everything I've heard I didn't miss much. Again.

We all expected a shitty Christmas period after that late equaliser at Leicester pretty much ended our title push, and when we beat Stoke 3-0 in January I thought that was us getting 'back to work', even if only to keep up our performances for our CL and FA Cup games. But we've completely flatlined since then, limping out of the CL and only turning up in isolated flashes here and there.

We're second, but can anyone truly say we look a better team than we did one year ago? Matic and Lukaku have been good additions but Lingard is the only guy who looks noticeably better than he did last season and our performances as a whole have barely improved one iota. IMO our strong start (in hindsight against some very poor teams) and the shiteness of the bottom half making it easier to turn draws into victories has papered over the cracks somewhat: tactically, we've plateaued.

Mourinho will no doubt get the money to buy another big name or two in the summer but we've got big problems with motivation and performances that can't be fixed with squad shake ups alone. I'll always stay hopeful but based on evidence of the last two years you'd have to be mad to expect much more out of this team next year. We're not bad, but we do appear to be stuck.
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jose talked about motivation problems, as if it is not his problem. Remember they actually stopped trying for him at Chelsea.
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Dee



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 655

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My fear is that if Martial leaves, he will turn into another KDB/Salah. He will become world class elsewhere and demonstrate Jose's inability to develop and get the maximum from his players.
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