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Mourinho
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4472

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john smith wrote:
Dee wrote:
I think other managers would be getting a lot more out of this squad.


spot on Dee,


That spot on to Dee is spot on John Smith.
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pdl



Joined: 20 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stig wrote:
john smith wrote:
Dee wrote:
I think other managers would be getting a lot more out of this squad.


spot on Dee,


That spot on to Dee is spot on John Smith.


Spot on Stig
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john smith



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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackl wrote:
This is pretty well glass half full. The play has not been pretty on the eye more times than not but this squad came second with a cup final to come, despite the no-confidence defence and the goalkeeper who Pep would pass over for Ederson.

You who would exchange Jose now for a newer model should think of the positives he has achieved since he came here and stop listening to the windbags in the media. He promised he would leave us better than he found us and in two seasons he has. Should he not get a third to see if he can carry that on?

I would be very sorry to see some players go. But it's happened before with better players: Andrei, Sparky, Stam, Keano, Becks, Butty. I could go on. I was sorry to see SAF call it a day, Scholesy, and Giggs, the last connection, hang up their boots. Rooney had maybe five years with us when he was great, Ronnie about the same (he has gone on to even greater heights). Which of these current guys do you say Jose is preventing from emulating any of those?

I think our defenders are no worse than City's, our striking options are different but potentially as good. Our goalkeeper is better (Ederson is an excellent sweeper keeper but not top quality at either attribute individually and he will be caught out as all Pep's goalkeepers are). The midfield suffers from playing too much through the middle and could be improved by two players of the type mentioned above. The strike rate will improve in proportion.

City will have to work harder next season. Pep usually quits when the playing field flattens. Let's wait and see, shall we?



that highlighted bit is where i think most reds i know all agree.

when you spend the money he has,and you have the squad available he has, you are almost guaranteed to make the top 4, add in the combined weaknesses we know Chelsea, and spurs and vermin always conjur up ( i don't even include Arsenal) and you know that any manager given the squad he has should be expected to make 2nd or 3rd.
last season chelsea won it with a squad Conti inherired
season before Leicester won it with a squad worth about 4 bob Wink so we are talking fine margins really .

no one doubts he has improved us in terms of league position,and points , but i believe the general opinion is, give anyone £300 million and the squad he has and they could have done it .

what he has done to achieve that target is opt to play with little flair, he shackles talented players , he restricts free thinking and free movement, he doesn't like superstars he likes a team of soldiers ,it makes us dull to watch and the end result is it's all about the points, not how they are gained.

the champions league exit to seville showed the glaring problem. there was the chance for utd to do a utd, and what did he do, he sent us out like stoke would set out to play against a top 4 side, that's not being pragmatic, that's not being Man Utd ,that's not setting out to beat a side , that's fucking shocking . Crying or Very sad
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Dee



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john smith wrote:
Jackl wrote:
This is pretty well glass half full. The play has not been pretty on the eye more times than not but this squad came second with a cup final to come, despite the no-confidence defence and the goalkeeper who Pep would pass over for Ederson.

You who would exchange Jose now for a newer model should think of the positives he has achieved since he came here and stop listening to the windbags in the media. He promised he would leave us better than he found us and in two seasons he has. Should he not get a third to see if he can carry that on?

I would be very sorry to see some players go. But it's happened before with better players: Andrei, Sparky, Stam, Keano, Becks, Butty. I could go on. I was sorry to see SAF call it a day, Scholesy, and Giggs, the last connection, hang up their boots. Rooney had maybe five years with us when he was great, Ronnie about the same (he has gone on to even greater heights). Which of these current guys do you say Jose is preventing from emulating any of those?

I think our defenders are no worse than City's, our striking options are different but potentially as good. Our goalkeeper is better (Ederson is an excellent sweeper keeper but not top quality at either attribute individually and he will be caught out as all Pep's goalkeepers are). The midfield suffers from playing too much through the middle and could be improved by two players of the type mentioned above. The strike rate will improve in proportion.

City will have to work harder next season. Pep usually quits when the playing field flattens. Let's wait and see, shall we?



that highlighted bit is where i think most reds i know all agree.

when you spend the money he has,and you have the squad available he has, you are almost guaranteed to make the top 4, add in the combined weaknesses we know Chelsea, and spurs and vermin always conjur up ( i don't even include Arsenal) and you know that any manager given the squad he has should be expected to make 2nd or 3rd.
last season chelsea won it with a squad Conti inherired
season before Leicester won it with a squad worth about 4 bob Wink so we are talking fine margins really .

no one doubts he has improved us in terms of league position,and points , but i believe the general opinion is, give anyone £300 million and the squad he has and they could have done it .

what he has done to achieve that target is opt to play with little flair, he shackles talented players , he restricts free thinking and free movement, he doesn't like superstars he likes a team of soldiers ,it makes us dull to watch and the end result is it's all about the points, not how they are gained.

the champions league exit to seville showed the glaring problem. there was the chance for utd to do a utd, and what did he do, he sent us out like stoke would set out to play against a top 4 side, that's not being pragmatic, that's not being Man Utd ,that's not setting out to beat a side , that's fucking shocking . Crying or Very sad


The resounding feeling from this season is of 'what if?' We don't mind the result as long as we give maximum effort and play to our potential. As 'they' have shown in the CL, play the best you can and see where that takes you Crying or Very sad
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, third season or not, your shout?
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north country boy



Joined: 13 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pdl wrote:
Stig wrote:
john smith wrote:
Dee wrote:
I think other managers would be getting a lot more out of this squad.


spot on Dee,


That spot on to Dee is spot on John Smith.


Spot on Stig


Spot on pdl
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north country boy



Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 2791
Location: in the area

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pdl wrote:
Stig wrote:
john smith wrote:
Dee wrote:
I think other managers would be getting a lot more out of this squad.


spot on Dee,


That spot on to Dee is spot on John Smith.


Spot on Stig


Spot on pdl
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackl wrote:
So, third season or not, your shout?


they will have to, they gave moyes 2 and LVG 2 , they dare not give Jose another season and a shit load more cash.

more likely because , who the fuck else is there, and as long as league position improves and champions league status is achieved the money roles in, the day trippers will always fill the ground , but most hard core reds i know are on the brink of turning away because the football, the entertainment shall we say, is so poor.

if you want to shop at the mega store , have your picture taken with the pitch in the back ground ,buy your half and half scarf and programme , and swell the coffers then those fans will continue because they don't go for the football they go "to say they've been" , and the club rakes in that revenue,
the genuine reds, the long standing seen it all types, that most on here are, look at it another way, when you support utd you know that it's more than desiring success, we desire inspirational football, flair football, attacking football, what Jose is prepared to serve is far from that.

he will get another season, but if i had to bet , i would say we will not finish first or second next season .
Chelsea will get a new manager
arsenal will get a new manager
Vermin may learn to defend
City will spend another Billion

spurs will still win fuck all Laughing Laughing
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Jarzinio



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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't want him at our club, still don't.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, I get to a fair few away matches, some of them hospitality and some of that from the opposition, but even then I always mix with the lads afterwards and I haven't heard that as yet. A lot of moans of course. Everyone knows there's a disconnect and everyone has a view on how to put it right but no one is throwing their hand in.

The general impression I get is Jose came too late. We would have salvaged more if we'd appointed him in 2013 instead of Moyes, and then it wouldn't have become such a big rebuilding operation now. I think the three years of Moyes and LVG really put us back. Maybe not quite as much as Sir Matt going but in that ball park. He'd probably be away by now but we'd be in better shape.

I'm not that pessimistic about next season. I've seen enough glimpses to know there's gold there. I take your earlier point about the money spent but you have to remember the inflation in the market which in fairness probably started with Ronnie but has gone hyper since. We had years of under-investment. For instance we could have gone for Hazard or Aguero when their fees were 40m or so. We didn't because there was no value in the market. We end up paying that kind of money for defenders. It was a false economy and what that shedload of money has bought is not quite that quality. I am not sure the spend argument works in that context.

I agree though I would like to have seen more got out of some. Martial and Shaw are two in point but I can see the diffidence in AM at times and I note Chubby has some strong views on Luke. Mkhi could have done more but isn't that another case of the team having to adapt to him rather than vice-versa? I see the press are now putting words in his mouth. You remember when Adnan was the one ray of hope under Moyes? Jose can't be held responsible for that, nor for Wayne's decline.

Me, I still think we need replacements for a Giggs, a Becks or an Andrei, players not necessarily with that precise talent but with that determinatiion. Ronnie and Eric are maybe too much to ask as is Wayne at his early best. If we got that I feel the dynamic would change and Jose would have no choice but to go with it as it works equally with possession or counter-attack.
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1999



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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good post.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the truth will play out next season Jackl,

you make some good points and i agree with many, but put some of where we are into context , by the time we kick off next season he will have had 5 transfer windows, let's also not forget he knew he was joining us 4 months before we did, so he had a long time to study what he would inherit and identify what he needed.
the money as you say as become hysterical , and i would add in when Vermin paid £36 million for Andy Carroll you knew the world had gone mad.

if we try look at City as the bench mark for where we need to be,it's worth noting that despite spending a fortune and buying big,what has set City apart has been that pep has managed to get the most out of the players he already had.
all jose seems to say "he needs more/better/new /expensive players" .

we started this season with some great results , but the truth was we had a very easy start and took advantage .

we will know by next November i feel where we are, will he have us playing the football WE want, whilst getting the results HE wants.............

we will all have to wait and see i guess.
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