m-u-f-c Message Board

 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

VAR

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    m-u-f-c.co.uk Forum Index -> m-u-f-c General Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cobhrambler



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: cork ireland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: VAR Reply with quote

Think it is a bit of a joke if you get the wrong ref.Some refs have used it to their credit and changed their minds,however some like tonight in the Germany Sweden game choose to go their own way.
If each team had 2 appeals in each half to query it things might balance out.......thoughts?
_________________
E. pluribus unum.
"I aim to knock Murdering Scum off their f*cking perch"
14/5/2011 Mission Accomplished!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dark-shade-of-red



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 5759
Location: Wiltshire

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think FIFA are showing the world why they took forever to implement video replay technology in-game. It's caused nothing but negative motion. I would hope they take the mostly negative feedback and bin it.

Goal line technology is a wonder and I think most of us are pleased it is in place. Because it literally gives a fair and factual decision and in an instant. It works perfectly.

VAR on the other hand, simply takes away the magic of a player and team/crowd celebrating a goal, adds needless minutes to a game and gives a referee a free pass to fuck-up as much as they want. All these decisions the VAR team make are all subjective.

I think it should be kept how it was before. If a player has dived/assaulted a player etc, then let that be reviewed after the game and any decision be resinded then. Obviously, a penalty decision cannot be reversed after a game but that is truly what football is all about - the enjoyment, excitement and all the discussions we have about what we disagreed with and what we're enraged about.

Down with VAR!
_________________
"United's success has generated its wealth; City's wealth has generated its success. Anything else is just piss and wind."

Cheerful Sid
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:02 pm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2362
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've said many times... I don't like this VAR. Slow, clunky, inconclusive, inconsistent... I could go on...

What it also does, when something is missed, for example the rugby tackles on Kane, it makes the refs look like they might be biased. Another issue, every decision, regardless of position on the pitch, has the potential to seriously effect the game. Not just penalties, red cards etc.

I've always preferred an 'appeals' option for decisions anywhere on the pitch. Although it might still be inconclusive, it would stop the players surrounding the ref and also to stop players going to ground easily. Many only do it as a way to show they have been fouled.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6729

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

last night showed why it's good and bad

Spain had a goal ruled out, the ref went to var , reviewed the goal and correctly awarded it.

same time in Portugal v iran , a horrible game that epitomized the tactics of some of the sides, the ref was under constant pressure -fans-players -subs-managers all doing the square box VAR sign every time a breeze blew passed a player.

Ronaldo was reviewed by VAR for an incident off the ball, the decision was then put back onto the ref ?? he reviewed it and then with all in the stadium on edge issued yellow card .

then later a ball in the box, ref is 8 yards away, looking straight at it, does not see anything, play on
then all and sundry start demanding VAR, VAR look at it, and then ask the ref to review it

this is where i have the biggest problem, the ref is now under immense pressure to change his mind, whatever you do for a job, if 5 people look at what you have done and then say" maybe you want to look at your work again" i would say you are under the illusion you've made a mistake or could have done it better.

it wasn't a penalty in whatever speed you saw it, but when you watch it for 2 minutes back and forth stood alone in front of a screen , with 50,000 people and the world watching on tv , it's too much pressure to NOT change your mind.

the whole fucking point of it was to eliminate errors, take out the maybes, but last night it actually add to the ambiguity of the things.

Iran missed a sitter late on, had they scored Portugal were out, and all because of the VAR.

it's like driverless cars, is t absolutely necessary !!! Confused
_________________
People say I'm condescending. That means i talk down to people
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2362
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the biggest problem would be the time it takes to review a decision. I had a concern the fact it is only used for 'match changing decisions' would be inconsistent as imo every incident could change a match.

The fact we are still debating decisions AFTER they have been reviewed by 5(?) refs with all angles covered, not to mention the things they have missed just shows the system doesn't work.

As I've mentioned before, the fact we have all this yet still missing vital decisions makes it look like corruption, bias, or what ever you want to call it, is involved.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1096
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears to be here to stay and is a direct result of the numerous complaints which have been made about controversial refereeing decisions and the consequentIal, usually implicit but sometimes explicit slurs on referee integrity.

I think it would be better if the decision remained with the video ref and should be used for goals and penalty decisions. I am not sure it is needed for serious foul play as many of these incidents are fake. Those could be left for retrospective punishment if the ref misses anything. We will shortly add simulation, which is endemic now, who the ball came off last for throw ins and corners. It will take over the game.

I agree about the loss of immediacy for fans in goal celebrations etc. but we may have to live with that. It will probably end up with two celebrations, two for the scorers or one for each side.

I still think the greatest threat to the game As a spectacle is the predominance of ultra-defensive football and the tolerance referees show to this. At least VAR appears to have loosened the grip of the wrestlers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
m42her



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 2072

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be controversial and think it's actually a good thing on balance, albeit with examples of shady implementation.

A Times article looked at all 15 VAR referrals so far, and barring the Iran penalty all the referrals returned what could be unanimously considered a correct decision at the end of the process.

Does the process need improving? Yes.
Do the refs need to become better (faster) at arriving at the answer? Yes.

IMHO it could be made a lot smoother if the decision, once VAR gets involved, is taken away from the ref on the pitch. It'll remove any chance the ref can be influenced by the crowd or the emotion of the game/certain players.

Ref continues to ref the game as he does normally. VAR monitors all decisions and if a clear error has been made, they call down and TELL the ref to reverse it. Giving the ref a telly to view it on and make the call is where the stupidity comes in.

Works in cricket and rugby...don't see why it can't be done in the same way.
_________________
"I'm a massive blue, you'll probably find there's none bigger" - Ricky Hatton
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Dave



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1451

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's fucking shit.

Only an organisation as incompetent as Fifa would decide to use their flagship event to trial-run a system that's been flooded with controversy wherever it's been implemented. I don't know who stands to profit from it but someone must have an eye on share prices somewhere, as I can't see it being ditched no matter what the results are: and the results so far are iffy at best.

All my fears about VAR have been confirmed and added to. It breaks up the game, it causes confusion amongst fans, it encourages even more protesting and diving from players, and to top it all off some of the decisions made using it have been wrong! Yes it can be improved but not to the extent it comes even close to being infallible, so what's the point?

The flow of the game and the enjoyment of fans should always take priority, even if it means making the odd mistake here and there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cobhrambler



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: cork ireland

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great headline in one o the newspapers today after the Germans were knocked out.."Don't mention the VAR!!"
_________________
E. pluribus unum.
"I aim to knock Murdering Scum off their f*cking perch"
14/5/2011 Mission Accomplished!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6729

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dave wrote:
It's fucking shit.

Only an organisation as incompetent as Fifa would decide to use their flagship event to trial-run a system that's been flooded with controversy wherever it's been implemented. I don't know who stands to profit from it but someone must have an eye on share prices somewhere, as I can't see it being ditched no matter what the results are: and the results so far are iffy at best.

All my fears about VAR have been confirmed and added to. It breaks up the game, it causes confusion amongst fans, it encourages even more protesting and diving from players, and to top it all off some of the decisions made using it have been wrong! Yes it can be improved but not to the extent it comes even close to being infallible, so what's the point?

The flow of the game and the enjoyment of fans should always take priority, even if it means making the odd mistake here and there.



i think thats how many feel, me included.


i believe the ONLY reason it is being accepted is the idea that we will never again have a miscarriage of justice syndrome...

maradonna hand of god
hurst world cup- was it over the line
lampards shot that should have been given that wasn't

and obviously there are decisions at league level

i feel the whole exercise is because ,some in the game want the effect of never making mistakes that are later talked about .They want beautiful - tackle free- controversy free football for the masses , the beautiful game played like a scripted play, where the audience sits and applauds the stars of this theater

for me Goal line technology would be enough ,as the VAR still has human error built into it.

players make mistakes
mangers make mistakes
linesman make mistakes
refs make mistakes

human error in many ways is what we love , and as it cant be eradicated completely , why try ?
_________________
People say I'm condescending. That means i talk down to people
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5905
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest single issue with VAR is that unlike every other sport that has adopted video assistance/replays FIFA insist on the on field ref having the final say, in Rugby & cricket (where it has been proven to work) the video ref monitors, decides and over rules. Football needs to adopt this otherwise it will always be far too clunky and disruptive.

For what it's worth, I think VAR has caught more incidents than it's missed and has been right far more than it's been wrong. For me that means overall more correct decisions are being made than previously and that can only be a good thing.

I'd agree though that it should have had more trials than it has and a world cup is not the best place to unveil it.
_________________
The situation regarding spoons remains unchanged, if I see one, I will kill it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1096
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These things never go back to the status quo. VAR became inevitable as soon as the technology became available because of the number of pundits poring over replays to point out the big toe was offsIde etc. You would have to ban replays too to go back to the good old days.

I do see it becoming more and more invasive but it has improved both codes of rugby and of course cricket (do we really need on-field umpires now in cricket apart from for the pageantry?) so it should be effective sooner or later. The debate will remain about whether it really improves things for the fans, particularly those in the stadium, who are perhaps the last to be considered as the game becomes ever more commercialised.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5905
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackl wrote:
and of course cricket (do we really need on-field umpires now in cricket apart from for the pageantry?)


Yes because:

A) Both sides have to agree to use DRS (India are not fans for example and have refused its use in several series)

B) The technology has proven that the umpires are correct over 97% of the time in any case (far higher than in football) and they can manage on field issues in a way that an off field video umpire could not
_________________
The situation regarding spoons remains unchanged, if I see one, I will kill it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    m-u-f-c.co.uk Forum Index -> m-u-f-c General Forum All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group