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Nicolae



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 11281

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john smith wrote:
and city have Otemendi for fucks sake. Wink


The General is head and shoulders above anyone you've got there at present, and is out FOURTH choice Very Happy

Will Jose last till Christmas?
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Believe me, it's a long round trip that one. Particularly for a horror show like that.

It did remind me of the odd performance of the Big Time Charlie days. You know, the one where the team turns up believing that hype mentioned in here that the opposition is beaten before the game starts. And then it all unravels, you're in a game, and just when you claw your way back in someone opens another page of the catalogue of errors and suddenly there is no way back. The truth is of course there was a way back and it was lack of imagination and poor execution which prevented anything from coming to fruition.

I saw a lot of what looked like a sense of entitlement but yes there could be an element of disillusionment. Jose is responsible for part of that and he has obviously been given some sort of warning from upstairs. Pogba struck an appropriate note but talk is cheap and if there is a disconnect with the manager it is not a one way street. The centre backs are good enough to compete in the PL and up to quarters in the CL and I am not sure there is anyone around who will add that vidic or Stam type of authority. Certainly there is no one until January.

Therefore I go back to previous posts and remind all those Full of sound and fury that the only definitive statement made in pre-season is Jose's “you will know by the end of November early December who are the contenders.” All other statements are media hype. To me that says it all about his intent and I don’t think the failure to sign another CB etc. should be permitted as an excuse for failure. The tools are there. It is not a bad squad and there is absolutely nothing any of us can do for the moment to affect this. The ship will sail or he and a few others will go down with it.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3608

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoolander wrote:
Chubby wrote:
Zoo, it’s not the back four, it’s the centre backs. We have 5x centre-backs that would not get into most of the teams we would consider rivals. The manager tried to resolve it, Ed, our new Director of Football claimed the manager wasn’t get the best out of what we had available. Ed must have been watching different games to me, as we haven’t replaced Rio, Vidic, Neville or Evra and not even SAF could polish these turds.


Sorry we'll have to agree to disagree, Young, Shaw, Darmian & Valencia are not good enough either, not for a side aiming to finish top 3 in the league, 1/4 of the CL and have a cup final day out.

The first goal yesterday started with Shaw being miles out of position so they got in behind us. This is why Jose hates him, he is so ill disciplined with his runs forward and so lazy at getting back into position. Jose has spent £85m on defenders so far on Bailly, Lindelhof and Dalot, Woodward and the fans have every right to question why we need to spend even more just to be able to finish in the top 4 let alone challenge for leagues and champions leagues. Something is wrong somewhere, the scouting, the recruiting, the negotiating.....we've paid too much for too little but who's fault is that? We deserve and need answers.

Would you really trust Jose with another £100m for Varane or £60m for Alex Sandro or heavens to God £70m for Harry fucking McGuire (his actual real name that by the way).

This is not planned spending, this is not building a team, this is not balanced, well thought out, reasoned risk taking, this is knee jerk, panic splurging.

We bought Matic as a defensive minded holding player but apparently that wasn't enough so we bought Fred as well and we have McTominay (the most limited young kid we have) and we re-signed Fellaini on more money than he had been on before. This is abject panic stricken joke recruitment. There's no plan, there is also no evidence what so ever that any of these players will stop the rot. Would you really have sanctioned another £70m for Milinkovic-Savic? I bloody wouldn't.

The only real question is why is Jose still in a job given that the board clearly don't trust him and the players clearly don't respond to him?


None of our defenders are great, but it’s self evident that the real problem positions are at centre-back. Where once we had Bruce, Pallister, Stam, Ferdinand and Vidic we have 5x that wouldn’t get near City’s squad, never mind starting XI.

Valencia and Young do an effective job, they are not great, but they’d be more effective if they could trust their centre-backs to cover them, they can’t. I’m not sure how you can claim they’re not good enough for top 3, given we finished top 2 with some ease last season. Murdering Scum have improved, but Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal have not. Right and left back are two positions where you can get away with lesser players, centre backs form the spine of any team, we shouldn’t get this bit wrong.

We’ve spent £80m, Dalot hasn’t played yet, so of the £60m spent we have to put it in context and perspective of Murdering Scum spending more than that on 1 CB and City spending nearly double that on 2 FBs/WBs. We’ve spent fuck all on a defence that you agree needs a complete overall. The board have sabotaged Jose, but more importantly they’ve sabotaged the team and the next manger, should Jose exit - which now seems somewhat inevitable. You either back the manager with funds or you sack him, Ed has done neither. What you don’t do is let a CEO who knows nothing of building a football team decide on transfer targets based on what he feels the team needs. The other thing you don’t do is lose faith in the manager, withhold funds and then see how it goes, hope is not a strategy. If they sack Jose now, or soon, then the next manager can’t fix a shite defence, first thing he’d need is to get 2x centre-backs into the team in January, where we’ll pay a fortune to get the quality needed. No matter how badly Jose is perceived, United is bigger than Jose and we’ve shot ourselves in both feet with both barrels. If Jose goes, so should Ed. Both have been complicit in some of the worst transfer activity we’ve witnessed, but let’s not kid ourselves, our transfers have been largely poor since the early 2000’s. A director of football is needed, sought and will be appointed.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to know who these centre backs are. I can understand going for Varane and maybe Godin at a pinch but I don’t see anything like £70m improvement on what we have in Maguire and Alderweireld. I think SAF might have questioned the value in that market and made what he had work. This may have cost us CLs between 1999 and 2003 but even then I doubt it was the only critical factor.
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north country boy



Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 2792
Location: in the area

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I try not to post too soon after United defeats these days, so I'm not too emotive... but a few days on its still hard to take any positives whatsoever from that shambles on Sunday.

It was literally like the players had downed tools, like the final days of Moyes "tenure", they were that bad. Pogba gave the ball away 26 times??? How is that even possible???

Its borderline impossible to relate to modern day footballers but I really cant get my head around our centre-backs. Fair enough their noses were probably a bit out of joint given the manager clearly thinks they're all not up to it. I'd have thought this would make them determined to prove the manager wrong... "Fuck you ya prick, I'll prove ya wrong, throw me in and give me a chance, I'll show ya"... Bailly and Lindelof contrive to prove Mourinho right with their shambolic performances on Sunday... embarrassed by Glenn fuckin Murr@y. A new low.

The other side of the coin is Jose signed both and if anything it looks like they've regressed under him. Either way its a sorry state of affairs.

At the moment I'm convinced Jose will be gone in weeks rather than months, and replaced by a new manager with a similar thinking Director of Football above him. I for one won't be shedding any tears when Jose moves on. Will any United fans miss him? Looks like the players won't anyway.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

north country boy wrote:
I try not to post too soon after United defeats these days, so I'm not too emotive... but a few days on its still hard to take any positives whatsoever from that shambles on Sunday.

It was literally like the players had downed tools, like the final days of Moyes "tenure", they were that bad. Pogba gave the ball away 26 times??? How is that even possible???

Its borderline impossible to relate to modern day footballers but I really cant get my head around our centre-backs. Fair enough their noses were probably a bit out of joint given the manager clearly thinks they're all not up to it. I'd have thought this would make them determined to prove the manager wrong... "Fuck you ya prick, I'll prove ya wrong, throw me in and give me a chance, I'll show ya"... Bailly and Lindelof contrive to prove Mourinho right with their shambolic performances on Sunday... embarrassed by Glenn fuckin No Longer The Abject Cunt(tm). A new low.

The other side of the coin is Jose signed both and if anything it looks like they've regressed under him. Either way its a sorry state of affairs.

At the moment I'm convinced Jose will be gone in weeks rather than months, and replaced by a new manager with a similar thinking Director of Football above him. I for one won't be shedding any tears when Jose moves on. Will any United fans miss him? Looks like the players won't anyway.


That's fair enough. I felt the same and although there were some in the away end chanting for Jose at the beginning I came across no one at the final whistle who was not of the mindset you express here.

My view is well-documented that I think the CBs could be improved but are still good enough to do a job in the PL etc. and they were not too bad last week. Therefore the shambles has to be explained by other factors.

We are indeed at a watershed. Jose has given himself (in my view) until December. But he has had the dreaded vote of confidence from the board so who knows? It will be interesting to see who gets the gig short-term if this prediction is correct.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3608

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard to disagee with any of that NCB, I think it will be weeks rather than months. If Jose has lost the dressing room, or the key members of it, then he’s done for. My only hope is we act quickly and the role of the new manager isn’t to get us out of the bottom half of the table. Ed should also go, it’s one thing signing up the largest Guatemalan chocolate spread manufacturer, it’s quite another running a football club. Ed has been complicit in the serial mismanagement of the football side of the club. If he knew what he was doing he would have set out a transfer strategy before we wasted so much on average players.
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