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Has the grass been greener?

 
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2391
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject: Has the grass been greener? Reply with quote

m42her's post on the other thread got me thinking, was we better off under LVG?

It might be short term memory on my part, but I'm sure things we're a bit more positive than they are today?
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3627

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things are better now. LvG’s football literally had me falling asleep, on a par with the dross served up by Sexton.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LVG seemed to be improving , his methods and tactics seemed to be getting better , and you could argue that he was ready the next season to turn us into the champions by his possession methods.But by fuck is was dire to watch .

Jose on the other hand seems to be making us worse, in a tactical sense and our style of play on occasions, we look no better than when he started or LVG finished really,

however , trying to be positive, there are glimmers of a side there that can play attacking , fluid football, i just wish he would not put the hand brake on when we get a lead...

what we all want are the fergie days back, Smile

what we all have is the reality that he aint coming back and it's long over , Crying or Very sad
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3627

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john smith wrote:
LVG seemed to be improving , his methods and tactics seemed to be getting better , and you could argue that he was ready the next season to turn us into the champions by his possession methods.But by fuck is was dire to watch .

Jose on the other hand seems to be making us worse, in a tactical sense and our style of play on occasions, we look no better than when he started or LVG finished really,

however , trying to be positive, there are glimmers of a side there that can play attacking , fluid football, i just wish he would not put the hand brake on when we get a lead...

what we all want are the fergie days back, Smile

what we all have is the reality that he aint coming back and it's long over , Crying or Very sad


Shocked I saw zero signs that we were improving under LvG, I thought we were getting worse as it was clear he'd lost most of the dressing room. There was a plane above OT that fairly much said what everyone was thinking at the time, if they were awake long enough to see it. Time is a great healer as the old adage goes, in this case it's made you forget just how bad it was under LvG. The players were coached to within an inch of their lives - I blame LvG wholly for coaching creativity out of the team and make us plod backwards and sideways.

In Jose's first season he won the league cup and Europa league, meaning we qualified for the Champions League. In Jose's second season we got to the FA cup final and should have won it, and we finished a distant second to an exceptional City side. Under LvG we quickly becoming a upper-mid table team.

If anyone truly thinks that we were better under LvG then they need a check-up from the neck-up. Bonkers.
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Nicolae



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 11287

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john smith wrote:
... and you could argue that he was ready the next season to turn us into the champions by his possession methods...


You'd have to be very good at "making shit up" though Very Happy Very Happy
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Sol the Red



Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3965

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the time he arrived at United, LVG had lost most of his marbles and his methods produced some of the most turgid football I've ever seen. If boring opposition teams into a coma in order to walk the ball into their net is a footballing strategy, then LVG was a genius. Me, I'd rather stick a ball point pen in my eyeball than watch that crap.

Mourinho's victorious Chelsea teams were never as attractive to watch as United, but they were ruthlessly efficient and I think that is what he is trying to recreate at United - so far with only mixed success.

I think pining for the swashbuckling approach of Ferguson's earlier years is futile. We don't have the manager or (arguably) the players for that approach any more.
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Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
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Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sol the Red wrote:


Mourinho's victorious Chelsea teams were never as attractive to watch as United, but they were ruthlessly efficient and I think that is what he is trying to recreate at United - so far with only mixed success.



100% agree with this, they kept possession well and were brilliant at keeping clean sheets so the real question is after over 2 years and lots of money spent......Why isn't he there yet?
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3627

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoolander wrote:
Sol the Red wrote:


Mourinho's victorious Chelsea teams were never as attractive to watch as United, but they were ruthlessly efficient and I think that is what he is trying to recreate at United - so far with only mixed success.



100% agree with this, they kept possession well and were brilliant at keeping clean sheets so the real question is after over 2 years and lots of money spent......Why isn't he there yet?


We rested on our laurels, we had Glasernomics, our structure, vision and strategy were based on SAF living and managing forever it would seem, and we've let others not only catch up but overtake us. Had we hired Mourinho straight after SAF we may have had a chance of some continuity before the wheels fell off, but all that disappeared with the Moyes appointment and Woowar taking over as CEO, the blind led the blind, no vision, no strategy, no direction.

I honestly think the state of the club, team and squad when Jose arrived meant a 5 year plan to be competitive again was the likely reality, but due to the success in the first season the board thought we were getting there quicker. I'd contend it merely painted over the cracks. I think we're three years away at least from challenging City. Some of this is Jose's fault, but much of it lies at the owners and Woowars door.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1116
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
Zoolander wrote:
Sol the Red wrote:


Mourinho's victorious Chelsea teams were never as attractive to watch as United, but they were ruthlessly efficient and I think that is what he is trying to recreate at United - so far with only mixed success.



100% agree with this, they kept possession well and were brilliant at keeping clean sheets so the real question is after over 2 years and lots of money spent......Why isn't he there yet?


We rested on our laurels, we had Glasernomics, our structure, vision and strategy were based on SAF living and managing forever it would seem, and we've let others not only catch up but overtake us. Had we hired Mourinho straight after SAF we may have had a chance of some continuity before the wheels fell off, but all that disappeared with the Moyes appointment and Woowar taking over as CEO, the blind led the blind, no vision, no strategy, no direction.

I honestly think the state of the club, team and squad when Jose arrived meant a 5 year plan to be competitive again was the likely reality, but due to the success in the first season the board thought we were getting there quicker. I'd contend it merely painted over the cracks. I think we're three years away at least from challenging City. Some of this is Jose's fault, but much of it lies at the owners and Woowars door.


I think that's right. Whoever hired Moyes needed their head examining, even as a stop-gap. You can see the logic behind LVG then as he might have seemed a younger SAF with a good European pedigree but he was near the end of his time too. Pep or Jose would have been right in 2013 but Pep's pals were already at City with the One World Club plan and Jose wanted the job but was overlooked so he had to go back to Chelsea. Klopp has proved he would have been a good fit but he became available too late.

I would probably go a little easier on Ed as he has certainly backed all the managers as best he could. We are suffering from the "no value in the market" days and that has meant three clubs are now better positioned for the immediate future.

Still, I think we are going in the right direction and, incidentally, I disagree with the Watford post suggestion that we always turned up at smaller clubs and rolled them over. I can remember quite a few ding-dongs at Palace, QPR, Villa, even Forest and other like Soton and Newcastle where we were well and truly schooled. Burnley have beaten us in SFA days. Even with Bruce and Pally, Jaap and Johnsen and with Ferdinand and Vidic we've clung on in matches we should well and truly have put to bed. It is not so different now. If the forwards don't score enough when they have the chances the defence will come under pressure.
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