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Another Why?

 
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Jarzinio



Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 816
Location: Manchesterish

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Another Why? Reply with quote

We are 2 points behind the oiled up fuckwits and I am confident that Swansea will beat them tomorrow and we will beat Bournemouth and secure Champions league football
So why the the fuck am I not excited by this prospect
I realise that its 27 hrs away but normally I would be starting get a bit giddy and I am not
I think the period of Moyes and LVG's philosophy has finally worn me down
I have been going to Old T for over 40 yrs and cannot remember, at such a crucial point, being in such a 'Couldn't give a fuck' state of mind
Is anyone else of a similar mind or am I maybe getting old and past excitement
Sad
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eyes again



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just can't get excited, maybe when the game starts I will.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qualify = lvg defo keeps his job
don't qualify = lvg possibly keeps his job

its a rock and a hard place in either direction.


the thought that some reds ( a few on here) wished for a few barren years in the hope the glazers would fuck off

well..........hows that turned out?

the glazers are still coining it in and we the fans are hurting after 4 years of dross.
losing I can take, but being served up a style of football that Bolton, west ham, stoke would be embarrassed by is un forgivable.

it wont happen, bjt if LVG goes I just hope the next guy has the balls to play to win every fucking game
it hasn't done Leicester any harm has it.

tactics and possession my arse Evil or Very Mad
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1052
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I felt that way more when it was a procession. Now I tend to be waiting for the moment when some of the obvious potential cuts loose and I am getting near over that.

I don't think you can knock possession football just because it is not working for us. LVG is probably as much responsible as anyone for the stereotype at Barcelona and Bayern. They have simply proved over the years to have a better cutting edge in that style of play. Gegenpressing is all very well provided when you get the ball back you keep it. Otherwise you're buggered in the final quarter.

I suspect it is same staff again next year so we just hope they get the players to move it faster and actually remember it's about goals.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2288
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'd be more excited if we knew where we were heading next season. With exception of the odd result, Arsenal at home in particular, this season has been an underwhelming one. Its a shame as I am very optimistic about the future of this squad. It's the first time in a long while I'd say we wouldn't need to spend big in the summer. Maybe a CB, perhaps a striker? After bitching about our academy earlier in the season I have to admit I now have more confidence in these lads than I do our scouting/recruitment system.

1 game I am looking forward to is the cup final.. Ok, it's not the league, it's not CL qualification but it is a trophy we have gone far to long without winning. It might also be the deciding factor for LVG... With the final being on my birthday I hope that I wake up on the Sunday hungover through celebrating to hard. Failing that, wake up to the news LVG has resigned (I'd rather be go with a bit of dignity).
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Judged Red



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1797
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john smith wrote:
...losing I can take, but being served up a style of football that Bolton, west ham, stoke would be embarrassed by is unforgivable


The goals scored / shots on target stats are an absolute joke.
Whatever the 'philosophy' might be, the simple fact is, if you don't shoot you cannot score, and if you don't score you cannot win.

Two years and £250 million spent, and United still could barely even manage to get a shot on target against some piss-poor to mediocre opponents.
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tafkaf



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JS - I believe LVG is gone already. Done deal no matter what. Heard it from 2 lads who are well in with United. Usually right about inner workings of club anyway.

Re: 4th place. I don't honestly give a fuck. It's no achievement. It's another shit sideshow in modern football. No trophy. We qualify & we'll get bashed by first half decent side we meet. Even if we scab out of our usual shit group.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tafkaf wrote:
JS - I believe LVG is gone already. Done deal no matter what. Heard it from 2 lads who are well in with United. Usually right about inner workings of club anyway.

Re: 4th place. I don't honestly give a fuck. It's no achievement. It's another shit sideshow in modern football. No trophy. We qualify & we'll get bashed by first half decent side we meet. Even if we scab out of our usual shit group.



if that's true pal, then I hope we do get 4th, as I would like to see the new manager have a go at the champions league.
if its who we think it is Wink
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Desert Moloch



Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 227
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackl wrote:
I don't think you can knock possession football just because it is not working for us. LVG is probably as much responsible as anyone for the stereotype at Barcelona and Bayern. They have simply proved over the years to have a better cutting edge in that style of play. Gegenpressing is all very well provided when you get the ball back you keep it. Otherwise you're buggered in the final quarter.


There's an important distinction though between Van Gaal's philosophy and what Bayern and Barca are doing now. It's not that they are simply taking their chances. When Pep took over that possession system, the key modification he made was to throw out the possession at all costs approach in the final third, and relied on the creative attack to have fun and create chances. You almost never see Messi, Robben, Neymar, et al getting the ball in the final third and choosing not to take on a defender, or passing it back to the fullback for that reason. Creativity and liberty is what we're missing up top. Its what stifled Di Maria, what's held back Memphis and Januzaj, and has led to us scoring so few goals.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2288
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desert Moloch wrote:
Jackl wrote:
I don't think you can knock possession football just because it is not working for us. LVG is probably as much responsible as anyone for the stereotype at Barcelona and Bayern. They have simply proved over the years to have a better cutting edge in that style of play. Gegenpressing is all very well provided when you get the ball back you keep it. Otherwise you're buggered in the final quarter.


There's an important distinction though between Van Gaal's philosophy and what Bayern and Barca are doing now. It's not that they are simply taking their chances. When Pep took over that possession system, the key modification he made was to throw out the possession at all costs approach in the final third, and relied on the creative attack to have fun and create chances. You almost never see Messi, Robben, Neymar, et al getting the ball in the final third and choosing not to take on a defender, or passing it back to the fullback for that reason. Creativity and liberty is what we're missing up top. Its what stifled Di Maria, what's held back Memphis and Januzaj, and has led to us scoring so few goals.


Just to follow on from DM's post, Barca (not so sure about Bayern?) operated a high pressing game. When they lost the ball every effort was made to regain possession as quickly as possible. This was only possible as there were plenty of attacking players in the vicinity of the ball to achieve this. We appear to go the opposite way... When possession is lost every man gets behind the ball and waits patiently, in an organised set-up, and are happy for the oppositions attack to break down due to lack of options... Basically the same defensive system used against us all season.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1052
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't disagree in principle with either of you but a plus 44 GD with Barca 1998-1999 and a plus 41 with Bayern 2009-2010 does not suggest the distinction was quite that great. Clearly he knows (or knew) what to do but he either didn't or couldn't implement it with us.

If you look at those two seasons Barca's 2 X 3-3 with us and Bayern's narrow win on away goals (4-4) do not suggest a totally unadventurous manager.

As for flair Rivaldo, Sonny Anderson, Luis Enrique (Barca) and Robben and Ribery (Bayern) doesn't fit the narrative either. We don't have to demonise a decent enough guy to conclude that he just hasn't done it with us.

In truth I think that if we are stuck with him next season we will see a marked improvement. My reasoning about letting him go remains the same, i.e we have to do it the season after anyway so if a quality coach is available for the medium term, don't lose the opportunity.
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