m-u-f-c Message Board

 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Martin McGuinness
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    m-u-f-c.co.uk Forum Index -> m-u-f-c General Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2054
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject: Martin McGuinness Reply with quote

From my limited understanding of the troubles in Ireland, I can't understand why so many are paying tributes to this bloke after his death?

Surely the fact he was part of the peace process doesn't make up for the horrendous loss of life under his watch? I'm pretty sure if the leader of ISIS, for example, decided to agree to a peace deal they wouldn't be hailed a hero? Or am I missing something?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Red Snow



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 2103
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Martin McGuinness Reply with quote

Southern Red wrote:
From my limited understanding of the troubles in Ireland, I can't understand why so many are paying tributes to this bloke after his death?

Surely the fact he was part of the peace process doesn't make up for the horrendous loss of life under his watch? I'm pretty sure if the leader of ISIS, for example, decided to agree to a peace deal they wouldn't be hailed a hero? Or am I missing something?



Like a lot of things in life, it's a paradox. His actions directly caused the deaths of other people. But without him it's entirely possible the troubles may still be going on now, with more innocent people killed.

He was a significant figure: a murderer and a peacemaker. Such is life.

Hopefully the peace keeps.
_________________
"United's success has generated its wealth; City's wealth has generated its success. Anything else is just piss and wind."

Cheerful Sid
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tafkaf



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 6212

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonderful topic to start with loads of Irish & ex military on here. Loll.

Mandela was a "terrorist" , went to prison, turned his back on armed struggle, got political, forgave & asked for understanding of his role in the history... sound familiar?

Takes 2 sides to have a war, Catholics were getting stamped on in NI for years... he has my respect for standing up though I hate the IRA and what they became. Tricky subject & too nuanced for black & white message board posts.
_________________
We have some right mardy twats as fans, Chubby is the worst.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TOFB



Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1925
Location: Cavan, Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Martin McGuinness Reply with quote

Southern Red wrote:
From my limited understanding of the troubles in Ireland, I can't understand why so many are paying tributes to this bloke after his death?

Surely the fact he was part of the peace process doesn't make up for the horrendous loss of life under his watch? I'm pretty sure if the leader of ISIS, for example, decided to agree to a peace deal they wouldn't be hailed a hero? Or am I missing something?

When the Queen dies, will tributes be paid to her despite numerous civilian deaths and atrocities carried out by her armed forces?

It all comes down to context.
_________________
"This does not slip now"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
redjim



Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 83
Location: Linton Travel Tavern

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Martin McGuinness Reply with quote

Southern Red wrote:
From my limited understanding of the troubles in Ireland



This. The Catholic side of the troubles is all encompassing in this country. Until people realise how the British behaved in Ulster (and Ireland in general) there will always be this issue. Unfortunately the Brits have never done a decent thing in Ireland. Ever.
_________________
"But I'll tell ya, you can tell him now, he'll be watching it: we're still fighting for this title and he's got to go to Middlesbrough and get something and... and... I'll tell ya... honestly... I will luv it if we beat them. Luv it."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tafkaf



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 6212

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SR - equating the IRA with ISIS? Really?

Sure we're all mad garglers that want to live & try find a bird.. like when we're alive! . 😥😥😥
_________________
We have some right mardy twats as fans, Chubby is the worst.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3332

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potato Wink
_________________
Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2054
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that, on the one hand the IRA is compared to the Queen and on the other, that you can't compare the IRA to ISIS.

As I said, I don't know the full facts and probably never will. I just wanted to see the views of others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
TOFB



Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1925
Location: Cavan, Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Southern Red wrote:
Interesting that, on the one hand the IRA is compared to the Queen and on the other, that you can't compare the IRA to ISIS.

As I said, I don't know the full facts and probably never will. I just wanted to see the views of others.

It's probably best to read up on his life in order to get a better view point and draw your own conclusions from there.

My view is that McGuinness grew up in Derry in an environment where Irish Catholics were being denied their rights, burned out their houses, shot and murdered for being Catholic. There was two choices, fight or continue being oppressed - he chose to fight. Rightly or wrongly it's difficult to say, as the people who fought for Irish freedom in the early twentieth century did so in similar circumstances - therefore you could argue that anybody who celebrates the freedom of the 26 county republic and brands the likes of McGuinness a terrorist is hypocritical in doing so.

All aside, he should be remembered for his role in the Peace Process, which overall has been very successful and has brought a lot of people together from both sides of the religious and political divide - a divide which goes back centuries. In doing so, I think he should be hailed as a hero as should the others involved.

On the ISIS, IRA, monarchy comparative. The only comparisons you can draw are that two of the aforementioned are/have/had been set on conquering and killing off other cultures by force for their own gain. All have been involved in bloodshed of some form.
_________________
"This does not slip now"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sol the Red



Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 3917

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Martin McGuinness Reply with quote

redjim wrote:
Unfortunately the Brits have never done a decent thing in Ireland. Ever.


Ah now, just a minute. We took Val Doonican off your hands. That must count for something.
_________________
"United's success has generated its wealth; City's wealth has generated its success.

Anything else is just piss and wind."

Cheerful Sid
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
redjim



Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 83
Location: Linton Travel Tavern

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy
_________________
"But I'll tell ya, you can tell him now, he'll be watching it: we're still fighting for this title and he's got to go to Middlesbrough and get something and... and... I'll tell ya... honestly... I will luv it if we beat them. Luv it."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5811
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murdering cunt, glad he's dead, hope he suffered.

NFT
_________________
The situation regarding spoons remains unchanged, if I see one, I will kill it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
tafkaf



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 6212

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlike your squaddie cunts, aye.
_________________
We have some right mardy twats as fans, Chubby is the worst.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6511

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoolander wrote:
Murdering cunt, glad he's dead, hope he suffered.

NFT


bit harsh there on old Val Doonican Zoo Wink
_________________
People say I'm condescending. That means i talk down to people
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5811
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tafkaf wrote:
Unlike your squaddie cunts, aye.


Fuck aye!

I kept people alive, he didn't.

PS Go fuck yourself!
_________________
The situation regarding spoons remains unchanged, if I see one, I will kill it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    m-u-f-c.co.uk Forum Index -> m-u-f-c General Forum All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group