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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4431

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smalling is just a puller, a grabber, a holder, he isn't footballer.

He could be penalized for every 'tackle' that he makes.
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north country boy



Joined: 13 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Smalling Rolling Eyes
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4431

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that there is enough variation in combinations to draw a conclusion.

We are all complaining about Jones and Smalling, but we also know that we have the best goals conceded record in the league.

So the conclusion must be that we are not winning enough games because of goals scored. But there we have scored 51. Only beaten by City and Murdering Scum and Tottenham. Despite having Harry Kane, Son and Deli Alli, Tottenham have scored one more goal than us.

I guess that is why we are second.

It just doesn't feel very convincing.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6667

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can post all the stats and all the team line ups and records and blah blah blah you like...

it means fuck all to me.

i know what i see, and i've seen enough over the last 46 years of being a red to know when something just isn't right..

we have a squad as good as anyone's . and i would honestly include City , madrid, psg in that .

but the parts we have don't work as a seamless machine.

ive seen it a million times before , a TEAM will always beat 11 individuals.

i can count on one hand how many times in the last 18 months how many times we have played and looked like a team.

it's what pep has done and city, and that's why we are all playing second fiddle.

i put £100 on city at 26/1 to win all four trophies ,

i fucking hope i lose, but currently you would not back against it.
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1999



Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john smith wrote:


we have a squad as good as anyone's . and i would honestly include City , madrid, psg in that .



It's spouting this kind of deluded garbage that gives us the giddy notion that we're underachieving, (whilst being 2nd in the league)

Do you honestly think Smalling and/or Jones would get into any other top 6 team's central defence?

Do you think Spurs, Ciddy or Vermin would swap any ONE of their main strikers for any TWO of our array of attacking talent?
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john smith



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i believe if you look through our 21 man squad and then look through any other top sides you will see that there or there abouts we have a match player for player match for just about every side.
and if Jose has spent 300 million + and we can still say he hasn't the right squad to challenge , then he is clearly buying the wrong players .

i watched PSG v Madrid last night , and for all the Neymars and Ronaldos out there , there's plenty of players who aint that special.

i will give you that one though, smalling and jones would struggle to get in Burnleys starting line up. Wink

but i believe Rojo, Bailly and Linderolf should be our first choice .
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to go against the grain here, Smalling I absolutely agree has gone backwards and isn't good enough for us. Jones, on the other hand, is a very good centre-back, rarely gets beaten for pace, get's stuck in, puts his head where most players wouldn't put their feet and seems to be largely injury-free at present. I rate him. He makes the odd mistake, as he did against Spuds, but that happens to the very best. He's as good as anything at City, Murdering Scum or Spurs in my opinion. Put him with a capable partner and he's solid. In fairness to Jones he looks shaky partnered with Smalling, but they all do. Look at the stats, we are a worse team with Smalling in it.

The creative players need to know that the defence is solid, then they can express themselves. Sort the defence out then we will play with more freedom, more expansive football etc.
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The Dave



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get all the hate for Smalling. He seems to be the scapegoat for poor results these days, but I'd just as quickly point a finger at other areas of the pitch. He aint terrific, but he aint terrible either, and has had many more ups than downs over the years compared to Jones. I'd still rather have him in the team than John Stones.

I also don't think our (mostly solid) defence is in any way to blame for our attacking players having no idea what they're doing and failing to complete simple ten-yard passes with such alarming regularity.

IMO we need to sort out the problems with our formation, tactics and morale before we even begin to think about dumping/signing anyone.
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JOHN SMITH WROTE
i believe if you look through our 21 man squad and then look through any other top sides you will see that there or there abouts we have a match player for player match.

Really ? I know that I am going to pick the outliers here, but who do we have that can compete with

Kevin de B
Aguero
Keane
Son

and it is the outliers that differentiate a team along with playing as a team.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6667

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stig wrote:
JOHN SMITH WROTE
i believe if you look through our 21 man squad and then look through any other top sides you will see that there or there abouts we have a match player for player match.

Really ? I know that I am going to pick the outliers here, but who do we have that can compete with

Kevin de B
Aguero
Keane
Son

and it is the outliers that differentiate a team along with playing as a team.



looking at current form , we appear to have no one

but the players who should be in that realm are
KDB - Pogba
Aguero - Sanchez
who's keane ? i'm guessing you mean Kane - well i would say we have Martial , we also spent £75 million on Lukaku so by rights we should be expecting him to be up there
Son - with the right training Rashford or perhaps Lingaard

the point i am making is , we have a SQUAD of hugely experienced , top internatioanls ,

we cried out for midfielders for years, it was a running joke on here , now we have
mata
matic
pogba
lingaard
herrera
carrick
and we have Lukaku, sanchez, martial, ibrahimovic and rashford.

the fact is we have enough quality in our squad, we are simply not getting the most out of it.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stig wrote:
JOHN SMITH WROTE
i believe if you look through our 21 man squad and then look through any other top sides you will see that there or there abouts we have a match player for player match.

Really ? I know that I am going to pick the outliers here, but who do we have that can compete with

Kevin de B
Aguero
Keane
Son

and it is the outliers that differentiate a team along with playing as a team.



looking at current form , we appear to have no one

but the players who should be in that realm are
KDB - Pogba
Aguero - Sanchez
who's keane ? i'm guessing you mean Kane - well i would say we have Martial , we also spent £75 million on Lukaku so by rights we should be expecting him to be up there
Son - with the right training Rashford or perhaps Lingaard

the point i am making is , we have a SQUAD of hugely experienced , top internatioanls ,

we cried out for midfielders for years, it was a running joke on here , now we have
mata
matic
pogba
lingaard
herrera
carrick
and we have Lukaku, sanchez, martial, ibrahimovic and rashford.

the fact is we have enough quality in our squad, we are simply not getting the most out of it.
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Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5859
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't have to be an expert to see that Utd don't concede goals because we get behind the ball and don't try too hard to get forward and score so our overall lack of goals conceded comes from a truly world class keeper with at least 6 players in front of him all of the time.

We could debate all day about the skill and ability of those 6 players but it's clear when we get exposed with a quick counter or a long hoof over the top and we have a 2 v 2 or a 3 v 3 we end up conceding and that shows the defensive players we have aren't individually good enough.

We've bought poorly for the last 7-8 years in my opinion, we've often been beaten to the very best talent and those we have picked up have simply failed to produce what we've seen from them at other clubs or internationally. For example, we have a real problem at 10, Kagawa was a scoring machine at Dortmund, he looked weak, pathetic and clueless most of the time for Utd. Depay was exciting and electric for PSV, he looked like he'd contracted ME by the time he was turning out for us, every stride seemed to cause him pain so he stopped running. Mkhitaryan was skillful, elusive and creative for Dortmund, with a couple of notable exceptions he looked well out of his depth at Utd and had any confidence and sucked out of him. There is and ongoing issue with who and how we recruit.

We don't seem to be able to get partnerships, Cole & York, Scholes & Keane, Pallister & Bruce, Rooney & Ronaldo our recent history is littered with them but Lukaku, Martial and Rashford all seem to bump into each other, pass the wrong way, shoot instead of slipping their partner in. Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Lindelof & Baily just don't seem to be able to put 2 good games together. Injuries, suspensions and calamities mean we genuinely have no idea who our best 2 centre halves are.

We're not a team, we have no plan, no rhythm, no style. For the last 5 years we've had no identity at all. We move the ball too slowly and we don't run enough (Opta frequently has us over the last 4 years as the PL team that averages the least distance covered per player) It's all well and good saving yourself for the important games at the end of the season (as SAF often used to talk about) but you have to still be in the fucking competitions in order to have something to save yourself for!

We're awful to watch, we make it look hard and joyless, to me that comes from the coaching but you can't blame just the current incumbent to me we'e looked like this since 2012, it's just been getting worse compared the amount being spent on fees and wages that makes it stand out more.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoo

that's the best post i've read on here for a long time pal, word perfect .

cap doffed Wink
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Zoolander



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you John, you are a wise and handsome man
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Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you John, you are a wise and handsome man
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