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Horrendous!!
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Nicolae



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 11281

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoolander wrote:
Given the inexplicable changes the manager made, given the bizarre tactics the manager chose and given the frankly rude and insulting comments the manager has made this morning does anyone else think (like I do) that there is some football politics going on here?

Dropping McTominay after the excellent display in protecting the back four that he and Matic showed against the vermin. Selecting Fellaini in fuck knows what role, isolating Lukaku, switching Rashford to a different wing......

Added to the comments coming out about how he'd done the same to United twice before and it was no surprise to see United go out at this stage.......

I think this is José's way of trying to lever yet more money out of the board, proving some behind closed door conversations where he's been telling them we aren't good enough and he needs another £250m to get us to the semi-final and challenge in the league.

it just seems so odd that coming off the back of the Palace game (a last minute blockbuster winner always does wonders for the morale and spirit) and then a good win at home against them and then we turn out this dire, insipid shite?


Jose always has, and always will, do things for himself and not the team / club he manages. He always needs a bigger pay day (and gets them), he always needs more money (and gets it), better players....it is never his fault.

Then, when his outdated, snooze-fest brand of football is finally questioned and sussed out, he falls out with the fans / owners and fucks off in a huff.

Let's just hope he has at least another 3/4 seasons with you though first Wink
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Nicolae



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 11281

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

m42her wrote:
Sánchez is a great player but this collective loss of form can only happen when there is something deeper involved.


*** stat fans ***

Alexis Sanchez lost the ball 42 times vs Sevilla at Old Trafford. The most for an individual player in the Champions League this season
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

m42her wrote:
It’s starting to get disingenuous to keep singling out players.

Every single player was off form last night maybe bar Lukaku and Bailly. Young too. I mean collectively they were putting simple 10-15 yard balls into touch.

Pogba isn’t playing well but he’s shown he can. Fellaini is so limited but has shown he can do a specific holding/defensive job (ref Park). Sánchez is a great player but this collective loss of form can only happen when there is something deeper involved.

Look at Arsenal - they have good players but collectively they’ve stopped playing for the manager and it’s toxic there.

We’re them, just 4 places higher in the table.

You simply can’t come out of every game with 4, 5, 6 players off their game and believe all those players aren’t good enough.

Think of the Fergie team circa 2011-2013. Nani, Anderson etc. That was a limited team but Nani on one wing, Welbeck the other feeding a fading Rooney would have sailed through last night. You cannot say Nani/Anderson/Welbeck/Rooney/Fletcher was a better side than Lukaku/Alexis/Rashford/Matic/Lingard.

This rot is deeper. It’s structural through the club, and functional in terms of training and tactics. Our manager and his ideas have been fundamentally left behind.

Everyone after Saturday was praising his ‘specific tactical plan’. We didn’t play well. We hit 2 goals on the counter and then stopped. Second half we were one Smalling mistake away from a draw. We were lucky. Rafa Benitez is great at ‘specific tactical plans’ but he’s still a defensive, negative manager.

We need fresh ideas. Jose has steadied the Moyes/Van Gaal ship. And he deserves thanks for that. But we’ve got to be brave and identify the young, hungry blood that will turn this oil tanker around.

It’ll probably have to be a leftfield appointment and there’ll be a learning curve but a few bad results can be forgiven if there’s a general feeling that the club is moving in the right direction. In that context a bad result or performance is a step back from 2 forward.

At the moment, every bad result is 2 steps back from 1 forward.


Certainly most of this. There is indeed something rotten in the structure of the state.

Curious that Jose would defend that fiasco of a selection and performance by reference to two results he got over United whilst managing elsewhere, both of which were much more the consequence of good luck than any nous on his part.

It was a serious error of judgment to raise that in the press conference and I am not sure he will recover the lost ground.

I think I made my position clear about the football in my comments on the second half of Saturday's match. I am not really convinced we are even second best in the league. We have been assisted by Costa leaving Chelsea in such a huff and by the ineptitude of [i]their defence.

Loyalty as always demands that I hope we bounce back in the cup.
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Jarzinio



Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 836
Location: Manchesterish

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most people know my views on Mourinho and they have not changed

HE won here with Porto He won here with Real Madrid
He is sociopath and narcissist and a 'good' manager, but I have no doubt that he would say that he is a 'great' manager
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4472

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst Saturday was our most organized display for a long time from set up to tactics - we still only had two shots on target. Two shots on target. I think we only had two shots on target against Chelsea as well.

You can't expect to win football games with two shots on target, and I think thoses games and particuarly Saturday's good organized displayed masked a problem that showed its true fact yesterday.
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Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5909
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stig wrote:
Whilst Saturday was our most organized display for a long time from set up to tactics - we still only had two shots on target. Two shots on target. I think we only had two shots on target against Chelsea as well.

You can't expect to win football games with two shots on target, and I think thoses games and particuarly Saturday's good organized displayed masked a problem that showed its true fact yesterday.


I don't mind if we only have 2 shots on target (like Saturday) if they both go in and we don't concede. I'd actually take great joy in going a whole season and not concede at home at all.

I'd have no problem playing 4 centres halves, with 3 defensive midfielders sitting in the spaces in front of them as long as we are good at it and set about doing it right and never look likely to concede and the 3 players up front can score 1 or more most games.

I want us to be good at what we are trying to do, I wanted us to be good at pass, pass, pass, pass under LVG and I have no real issue with being negative, defensive and then hitting someone on the break and shutting up shop to see out 90 minutes as long as we are good at it. Work hard, be active and dynamic, close people down, keep possession when we can. Be lethal and clinical in front of net.

The problem for me is that I think José's actions last night and his words in the press conference were deliberate politics and empire building. I believe that our manager thinks we can't win the CL so he used last night as leverage to bribe and influence the board. I can't accept that.

We didn't try to win last night, players were not dynamic, they were not running, they were not closing down, they were not accurate or skilful in their play. The squad that had come off a great result was inexplicably changed and a player that has made it clear he is leaving, who hasn't started a game for weeks was brought in and for me that was deliberately destabilizing.

The playing side of the club has been on the slide for the last 5-6 years in my opinion, it's coincided with city becoming the major force in UK football and oil money flowing into the game making our "genuinely" created wealth no longer able to dominate as it once did. The whole playing side of the club needs to be overhauled. Directors, managers, coaches, players and medical staff (we've never had as many injuries as we have in the last 3 years) need a complete rethink.
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Nicolae



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 11281

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoolander wrote:
it's coincided with city becoming the major force in UK football

(and oil money flowing into the game making our "genuinely" created wealth no longer able to dominate as it once did)



Very Happy Very Happy Wonderful caveat there Mr Zoo.

Given we have spent about the same, our wages are about the same, our manager earns about the same, I wonder if players / managers bought with oil money over-perform and those bought with 'genuine' money under-perform?

Or if it's just a smoke and mirrors excuse Wink
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Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5909
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was an awkward nod to the fact that I think city have generally bought well whilst we have generally bought badly.

I don't know who bought who at city so I can't say Pep is a master in the transfer market (I'm sure the likes of Silva, KDB and Aguero were pre-Pep)

I subscribe to the adage that your wealth has created your success where as our success has created our wealth but in the last 5-6 years you have used it far better than we have no matter where it's come from.

I don't subscribe to the adage that you have bought the league, many teams have tried this over the years, Blackburn have a single title to show for all their early 90's cash, Milan once bought almost the entire Ajax side and still finished below Juve'. Money helps but it isn't everything. You are now beating teams in the tunnel the way we did in the 90's and at times in the 00's.

Since SAF left the only 'good buys' United have made are Bailly, Mata, Martial and Lukaku. The only really good players we had when SAF left that are still around are De Gea and Valencia, 6 decent players in a squad that has cost close to £600m to assemble. We've spent more since SAF left than we did in all of the 27 years he was the manager. We're in more trouble than people realise with our current recruitment policy.
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tafkaf



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 6409

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing that Nic is all into talking football these days. Seems like only yesterday, he was bemoaning the financial divide ruining the game & professing complete indifference.
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tafkaf



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You better beat those cunts all the same.
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m42her



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 2072

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoolander wrote:


The problem for me is that I think José's actions last night and his words in the press conference were deliberate politics and empire building. I believe that our manager thinks we can't win the CL so he used last night as leverage to bribe and influence the board. I can't accept that.


I'm wondering if he realises he's been found out and doesn't really have the ability to catch Pep's side.

Now he's making the whole place toxic in a way only he can - so either he'll get himself fired and claim he never got the chance/backing nor were the players good enough.

Or he'll spunk money on players until it works.

In the first scenario he won't be to blame for failure. In the second he'll get the credit for success.

Either way, it's him first.
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