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RedPhil



Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 749
Location: Cheadle

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Shite Reply with quote

Shambolic.
Id get shot of this footballing dinosaur now.
Total waste of a perfectly nice saturday tea time.
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1999



Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 3628
Location: Location: Location

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

all of a sudden, 'parking the bus' has become 'a splendid defensive performance'.

fuck it.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2363
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shite/to little, to late

The season before this gave us all a bit of hope. 2 trophies and back in the CL in Jose's first season. More would likely come from our two attacking youngsters, Pogba had a season under his belt to work with the squad and we signed Lukaku and Matic...

With another season to work with the players, a few quid to spend and the only positive from the season is that we finished 2nd. Pogba still hasn't reached the level expected of him. Martial and Rashford, our two brightest prospects, look broken. No current united player looks likely to be any better next season and I can't remember the last time we signed a player that lived up to the hype.

To pour salt on the wounds, our two biggest rivals are playing great football, one won the league and the other will likely win the CL.

Is there any hope we will be better next season?
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cobhrambler



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: cork ireland

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very poor first half,if they played as they did in the second the result would have been different.DDG piss poor on penalties....but not blaming him.
No leadership on the pitch,Mata on too late to change things.
All over til August.
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Jarzinio



Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 835
Location: Manchesterish

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4472

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"United were hopeless"
--- Alan Shearer 19th May 2018.
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north country boy



Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 2792
Location: in the area

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asking for trouble starting Jones, esp when a superior alternative is available.

Bizarre. But sure what the fuck do I know

Roll on the World Cup
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4472

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To this point why wasn't Bailly playing. Was he being saved for the end of season tour ? We can't really be going to Smalling and Jones next year can we.


and after watching that Joese main targets seem to be fullbacks. We didn't lose the game or come 19 points behind City because of our full backs.
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TOFB



Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1955
Location: Cavan, Ireland

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jones, Rashford and Lingard all atrocious. No wonder they were all substituted. I would have had Martial, Bailly and Lukaku in there all day long, fit or not.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3603

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stig wrote:


We didn't lose the game or come 19 points behind City because of our full backs.


100% correct when it comes to their defensive capability, no issues.

100% incorrect when it comes to their ability to provide width and quality crosses. Valencia, and to a lesser extent Young, are simply not good enough when we attack down the wings. Both are right footed for a start, Valencia cannot cross a ball and Young cannot get beyond a defender as he has to cut in, which takes width out of the play and also curls the ball toward the keeper, not away.

I believe one of our biggest failings is quality width going forward. They don’t often stretch a defence & when they do rarely get behind the quality of the cross is not there.
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Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5905
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We never get teams turned around facing their own goal. It's so easy to defend against us.

Rashford & Sanchez continually received the ball with their backs to goal and Valencia and Young continually received the ball with their back to the touch line. You have to be very, very, very good to beat teams when the ball is always in front of them.

I believe the biggest reason that we aren't producing results is nothing to do do with our forwards or attaching players, it's the back four and the holding midfielder.

Typically Jose's teams have conceded very few goals and they have used the defenders and holding midfielder to play out of the back and compress the pitch, the full backs have been used to over lap and break quickly to create the limited number of chances needed to win the game in the way Jose wants.

Our back four aren't good enough, not one of them. We don't have a single defender in any position, left back, centre back or right back that would regularly get into any of the other top 5 sides. They are adequate at best. Yes we've finished 2nd and got to a cup final but we done it despite them not because of them.

Jones, Smalling and Rojo are always just about to make a mistake. Baily looks a bit too lightweight for the premier league in my opinion, Lindelhof still has much to prove. Young and Valencia are wingers playing out of position who can no longer beat their man or get the cross past the first defender, Darmian is the worst Italian I can recall for a long time and Shaw has many issues and I can't see him continuing at the club, the manager simply doesn't like or trust him.

We bought Matic to be the holding midfielder but we keep on playing Herrera there. His positioning is always off, for the pen he was much too far away from his centre halves. Yes Jones was out of position too, yes the centre halves were arguably too far away from each other but surely that's why you deploy the holding midfielder as cover? He was no where near. His tackling isn't good enough and he's shit in the air. Why have we got 6 foot 4 inch former central defender Matic in the side if not to be the destroyer/screen for the back four?

Weird to say it but in that destroyer role Herrera is no Phil Neville. Without an effective base to build from we will never ever fully adopt Jose's methods and tactics. The keeper is mint, the back four needs complete change, every one of them needs to go and we need to get Matic in that holding role. That will enable us to let midfielders push on with full backs outside them.

In 04/05 and 05/06 Jose's Chelsea team scored the 2nd most and then the most goals in the season whilst also conceding the least both seasons. They lost just games in total over both seasons, we've lost 7 in just a single season. They conceded just 37 goals across both seasons, we've conceded 28 in just one. We simply aren't providing the safe base to build from and the quality to play out from the back and over lapping full backs. It's the entire back four that has to go.
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1999



Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 3628
Location: Location: Location

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been saying it all season, teams have been relegated with better back fours than ours.

From the split second Hazard was in a one-on-one with that great lumbering buffoon, the writing was on the wall. The gormless liability should have stayed on his feet and hoped Hazard would either over-run it, or DDG would make a block.
The best he could manage was to concede a stone-wall pen, and hope to stay on the pitch.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1097
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
Stig wrote:


We didn't lose the game or come 19 points behind City because of our full backs.


100% correct when it comes to their defensive capability, no issues.

100% incorrect when it comes to their ability to provide width and quality crosses. Valencia, and to a lesser extent Young, are simply not good enough when we attack down the wings. Both are right footed for a start, Valencia cannot cross a ball and Young cannot get beyond a defender as he has to cut in, which takes width out of the play and also curls the ball toward the keeper, not away.

I believe one of our biggest failings is quality width going forward. They don’t often stretch a defence & when they do rarely get behind the quality of the cross is not there.


Totally agree with that. Twice now I've come away from that place with their moronic supporters giving it large, this time with a frankly rubbish team like that (Hazard excepted).

I can't help but go back to that time when we City and Chelsea were in for him but we pulled out because there was no value in the market. Couldn't buy him and pay the divis I'm sure that meant. They should have paid a £10m premium for him with the money they still had from Ronnie and blown the opposition away.

Apart from that, frankly, it wasn't a great deal different from 2007 except we did of course have width then but they were much better too.

I still don't agree with scapegoating Jones. He wasn't out of position. Hazard just pulled that ball out of the air as great players can. I didn't see Herrera but I am sure Hazard was on the right to get away from him and Ander was not ordered to do a total man marking job, just a zonal one. Jones got back well and I think Hazard had run it too far and wasn't going to beat de Gea from there. So okay blame Jones tackling instead of shepherding but in fairness he thought he could get the ball and did. It is just the confusion in the rules now about when you can tackle and when you can't. I don't think it's clear. I think it's a ref's call. It was pretty nondescript. It was of course Michael Oliver the buffoon who sent of Buffon for a Latin complaint about another dubiious penalty. Frankly, as soon as I knew he was appointed I felt he would decide it and not in our favour. That is not to say he was necessarily wrong. It was just soft and he took another minute to add to his 15.

Yeah, right, better back fours than ours have been relegated. Hmm, that sounds like some of the best hyperbole I've heard this season.

I confess that those of us who support Jose are having to dig deep. The first half justifies the title on here except for the odd flash. The second saw some good approach play and defending of the kitchen sink type which I haven't witnessed since Carragher hung up his boots and started gobbing on United fans. I think a bit of genuine width might have got us there and might get us at least another dozen points next season.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2363
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way we've ended this season has drained my hope that we were on the way back up. It almost feels like we are back where we started when LVG got sacked, albeit swapping a trophy for a CL place.

With the money we've spent I think its fair for us to expect more. Have we spent poorly? Or is Jose just failing to the the most from his players? IMO he has also done little to get the best out of what we have. For example, I believe if you gave Rashford, Martial and Shaw (I know he will will divide opinion) to pep, poch or klopp they would thrive.

As for Jose himself, he just looks miserable. Imagine going into work every day to face that. Hardly inspiring. I'm also getting tired of his deflection tactics. I've tried backing him, tried ignoring him, now I'm just bored of it. The public criticism of players hasn't just failed, but backfired, with none of those players getting any better.
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4472

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that the dust has settled there are two things from yesterday, and the season in general, that show me we have a problem with Jose. I want to support him and hang on the ' we are better than we were. 2nd in the league. Won the European League etc.. but;


Rashford. Was a bright exciting 18 year old scoring on European debuts, England debuts the lot. Now he is 20 and looks completely lost and confused. When he is one on one with a keeper he looks like he would rather be anywhere else than there.

Taking an exciting 18 year old and turning him into a confused scared 20 year old is bad management.


Pogba. Was supposed to be our midfield controller like Robson, Keane, Beckham, Scholes etc.. he was the worst player on the pitch yesterday. He has won this award a few times this season. That is eitehr poor recruiting or poor management. Whatever it goes back to management.


Sanches- Paul Scholes says " his performaces can't get any worse."


We have a manager who doesn't seem able to get a performance out of anyone.


Yesterday we looked like a Championship side. Huddersfield at best.
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