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Pogba -"There are things I cannot say"

 
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Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5923
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Pogba -"There are things I cannot say" Reply with quote

So......all happy at OT then.

Simple question, given the choice would you back the manager which means getting rid of the player or would you support the player meaning we'd have to get rid of the manager?

I genuinely don't know, my instinct says manager but I am basing that on years of football where I have always thought no one is bigger than the club etc etc. My doubt now come from the fact that our current manager does think he is bigger than the club.

Jose from 10-12 years ago was funny, engaging, cocky, confident and if you weren't a chelsea fan, really, really annoying! Jose now is brooding, miserable, scathing and just a bit bitchy.

On occasions one signing has added that magic ingredient that has turned a season, we didn't really make that many changes so I fear the media will use this little fall out /disagreement to make it something bigger, my gut (which is pretty big) tells me Jose will be gone by January.
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m42her



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally - you’d back the manager. No player should be bigger than the club and should never be allowed to question their manager. But in this case I’d have to say player.

Purely because I think it’s the best for the club. Even if I take my feelings on Jose away, I can’t make a case for him.

First off, commercially it’d be suicide - the club’s most talented and marketable asset in trouble because the manager can’t handle his personality. Not a good look. Pogba is clearly our most talented player. Even if it looks like it’s bowing to player power (argument could be made) it’s sending out a really negative signal to the rest of the squad and future players that United isn’t the place for talented players with strong personalities anymore.

Then look at the manager - Jose is currently doing a fine job creating a culture of bitchy disharmony. From his comments about Martial on tour returning home to wondering if players fancy coming back to help out, to downgrading himself to head coach...,every single interview he gives has a subtle dig at someone or something. Be it a player, Ed, the tea lady...it just doesn’t stop.

It’s not like Jose is playing with the verve of the best Fergie years either, that gives him leverage to trade on. For the first 8 games of last season we genuinely thought we had something approaching consistent quality football. That’s 8 out of 76 league games. Aside from that there have been a handful of results to warm the hearts here and there but that’s it.

Then there’s the manager’s performance. We have, and have lost, players that most would agree have talent that is being severely under-utilised. Anyone care to name a player who shown significant development or improvement since Jose arrived? Lingard, at a push I’d say. De Gea, Young & Valencia have probably maintained their level but almost everyone else seems to have regressed in form. That’s pretty poor performance, objectively.

He’s won us trophies and got our best finish in 5 years. Which is a solid achievement. But his conduct off the field and the play on the field has been poor. In fact, you could easily make a case that second last season and a UEFA cup win was probably par considering we probably had at least the second best squad in the league last year and the best squad in the UEFA cup that year. So really - nothing he’s done has been extraordinary.

I don’t think Jose is good for the club. Nothing anyone has said nor anything I’ve seen has yet to convince me otherwise.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd want to back the manager, but in modern football it doesn't work like that as managers don't hang around long enough.

Pogba has been openly criticsed in the media by Jose, as have many of his teammates. IMO he, and every other player has the right to step forward and defend themselves and give their side of the story.

The moral of the story, if you can't handle critiscm or don't want players to be justified in fighting back, don't dish it out.
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Hawkeye



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 2997

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so frustrated by Jose's lack of class in dealing with his players that I've started reading Managing My Life again and reminiscing about better days. Fergie could (and did!) dish out the odd bollocking but the difference was he kept it behind closed doors. And the players respected him for it. Even with the remove of thirty plus years, there are loads of cases of former players who call him "Boss" and would go through fire for him. That's the difference between our former manager and the present one.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3624

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jose has until Christmas to show that he can carry the team forward. If we’re there or thereabouts then he’ll remain, if we’re off the pace then the failure to get his desired players will become the excuse, which will turn to blame, which in turn will have him leaving by mutual consent.

I’m guessing here, but Jose’s own behaviour during pre-season cost him the signings he wanted. With Martial and Pogba unhappy at how they’ve been treated, plus the constant belly-aching and lack of commercial sensitivity is it any wonder the board maybe took a rain check? If it’s not this then Ed Woodward is the Director of Football at United and we should be rightly very concerned.

Where Pogba is concerned I suspect no matter what happens he’ll not be a United player by 2020. He’s not the loyal type imho. If we make a decision between the two then Pogba should sign an extension to keep him at the club, or inflate his transfer fee to well over £100m.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have only glanced at the media to see what this thread is about, Embarassed

but i think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.


my feelings about Jose are well known, but when it comes to him and pogba i think he has actually been overly biased towards the frenchman.

he made him Captain on friday FFS. Shocked
last season Pogba has an iffy game and jose came out with the complete bullshit that he had been "world class"

Luke shaw, Smalling and Martial etc all got slated for a lot less , yet Pogba could do no wrong ..

if there is any truth in this, then it's what has been said by Pogba that's the issue, and let's face it if he wants to start a fight to get himself a move to Barca,what better way than to start it with Jose.
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TOFB



Joined: 27 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion is that footballers shouldn't have opinions. Just get on with it and play fucking football.

Pogba may be high profile, but he still has a lot to prove at United performance wise. All too often he's jogging about the place offering fuck all. I don't see what he's done to merit much clout from a footballing point of view for United so far. Start putting in some 8/10 performances week after week and then I'll listen.

Same goes for Jose. I just want everybody to cut out the bullshit and see some honest football this year.
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Chubby



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Pogba was very good against Leicester, I'm not sure what some of you are expecting from him. The match reports all had him as a stand out performer, so I'm not sure what some of you have seen that the rest of us didn't.

I think Pogba gets judged harshly, a bit like Sterling. Perhaps his profile means he's there to be shot down more than others, but he does get far more inspection than most players, perhaps his fee along with his persona makes him an easy target.

Jose was right to be critical of him, in big games he shows up, in smaller games where he should easily dominate he doesn't seem to break out in much of a sweat. Great players do it on a rainy night in Stoke, as the football cliche goes, not just when it's a big game.
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Jackl



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally surely we all know this is a crunch season for Jose and probably equally so for Paul? We don't really need provocative, unattributed or uncontextualised media statements to tell us there is trouble at the mill, the natives are restless etc. Or that someone somewhere has a vested interest in exaggeration.

Similarly do we need to be reminded of the wheel of fortune? Sometimes you are up there at the top and then you fall and it can take time to get back? You have to go through periods of famine to enjoy the feast. If the feast lasts 20 years then the drought which follows may seem longer and worse than it actually is. Of course you can wear green and white hoops and nearly always be King - of the midden. Not so if the prize is less illusory.

There is no absolute answer to the initial question. Many so called fans wanted Sir Alex gone before he achieved anything and some would have been happy to see him go in 2002, 2003 or 2006. There is no manager who is always right and must be supported at all cost. You just have to live with the consequences of the decision either way. It can never be known if it was the right one or not, just that you either are or are not satisfied with how it worked out.

The one statement you can take to be definitive is Jose's own that you will know who the contenders are by November / December. That was public; it nailed the colours to the mast and we'll see shortly how it pans out. I really don't need to elaborate.
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Bondurant



Joined: 24 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't stand the constant sniping from Mourinho.

Him saying City were lacking in class is just the latest example of his lack of self awareness. Just let it go.

Agree with Chubby. Let's see where we are in a few months.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If things are bad Pogba should just come out and say what he wants to say.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bondurant wrote:
Can't stand the constant sniping from Mourinho.

Him saying City were lacking in class is just the latest example of his lack of self awareness. Just let it go.

Agree with Chubby. Let's see where we are in a few months.



i nearly laughed out loud when i heard him say that,
jose mourinho accuses someone of lacking class...ycnmiu Rolling Eyes
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Dee



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it incredible that by his own admission the captain on Sunday did not have the right attitude. It's his job to ensure his attitude and that of the rest of the team is spot on. Also, Mino Raiola's comments about Scholes, you are toxic pond life and would love you to royally fuck off away from the club. If your client requires a lesson in attitude and being a leader, he might want to look at the player the Ginger Prince played alongside in arguably the best United midfield four. Twat.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dee wrote:
I find it incredible that by his own admission the captain on Sunday did not have the right attitude. It's his job to ensure his attitude and that of the rest of the team is spot on. Also, Mino Raiola's comments about Scholes, you are toxic pond life and would love you to royally fuck off away from the club. If your client requires a lesson in attitude and being a leader, he might want to look at the player the Ginger Prince played alongside in arguably the best United midfield four. Twat.


Raiola's comments have swayed my opinion about Pogba comments.

If Pogba wants to remain a United player he should either get rid of his agent or have a very strong word with him.

As for the wrong attitude comment from Pogba, it appears to be a re-occuring thing. It seems the 'worse' the opposition is, the worse we play.
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