m-u-f-c Message Board

 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Brighton
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    m-u-f-c.co.uk Forum Index -> m-u-f-c General Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2439
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Brighton Reply with quote

Sometimes you get games where things just don't go to plan and you end up a bit humiliated.

The huge difference between this United team and that of teams of the past, we would know there would be a reaction in the past. With this lot a big defeat vs spurs wouldn't be a surprise.

I had real fears for us this season. Vs Lecister we done ok and eased my fears a bit but today has confirmed my fear. Sadly nothing will change until Jose is gone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6774

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i thought we were average against Leicester and absolutely woeful today .

i want to think things can only get better , but given what we have seen in the last 8 months , i think we would be foolish to expect anything radical to happen in a positive.


maybe Chubby can strip away all the negatives, and turn a blind eye to the not so bads, and then be left with only the positive , a thing i admire him for , as he does it so well, but he's a more optimistic man than any i know if he can genuinely can see this side managed by Jose achieving anything
_________________
People say I'm condescending. That means i talk down to people
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Dave



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1476

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We were fucking shocking today. The first half we showed as much defensive strength as an Arsenal team; the second half we dominated possession but managed one shot on target from open play.

I've never seen a United team lose the ball so cheaply so often. And we had literally 0 ideas about how to get back in the game.

I reckon Mourinho will be gone before the end of January come what may, but a few more performances like this and he might not even make it to December.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3686

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on that performance I’m struggling to find any positives.

Jose was right, we need at least 1 quality centre-back, probably 2, plus another 2 as backup. The mistakes today were pure comedy. I’ll be surprised if we see that pairing again any time soon, they managed to radiate panic and fear throughout the team. Trouble is the other options aren’t great, Jones and Smalling are marginally less shite, but it’s marginal and they’re still shite.

I’d like to see a back three given a go.
_________________
Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5945
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of feeling smug in a really, really bad way.

I said the back four were shit, I said they were the biggest problem, some laughed at that, some disagreed, some sniped.

It's fundamental to the 'Mourinho way'. One of the reasons he is so exasperated (thus speaking utter shite in the media) is that expensive, highly paid, international footballers can't seem to do the things 11 year olds learn. At about 56 minutes into the game I watched Luke Shaw try to head a clearance from just inside his own 18 yard box, it bounced on the 18 yard line, I didn't know that was possible, seriously my Mrs would have headed it further. We can't even do the simple things and put a boot through it and find row Z, something is very wrong!

We are Manchester United and yet today we had a 33 year old left winger playing right full back, let that sink in a few minutes and think about it. We've spent over £640m since SAF left and yet we have a 33 year old left winger at right full back.

No doubt at some point you've had an argument/discussion about football with mates or what ever and you'll have used the term "the United way", I expect most of us have also quoted the famous Gordon McQueen line "95% of footballers want to play for Utd, the other 5% are lying" well not any more they don't and whatever the "United way" might have once meant, now it means parking the bus, scabbing enough points to scrape into a Europa league spot and looking for a 5th manager in 6 season, whilst selling Pogba for less than we paid for him.
_________________
The situation regarding spoons remains unchanged, if I see one, I will kill it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3686

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoo, it’s not the back four, it’s the centre backs. We have 5x centre-backs that would not get into most of the teams we would consider rivals. The manager tried to resolve it, Ed, our new Director of Football claimed the manager wasn’t get the best out of what we had available. Ed must have been watching different games to me, as we haven’t replaced Rio, Vidic, Neville or Evra and not even SAF could polish these turds.

I’m going to give Shaw the benefit of the doubt, as I am Dalot and Bailly. But Jones, Smalling, Rojo and Linderlof are simply not good enough and not one of them is a leader of the line or vocal enough. We need a defensive rock and leader there, Jose needs his John Terry type player.

When SAF started at United he sorted the defence out first. It appears Jose will get to do it last, if at all. A 4th manager since 2013 will not fix this if Ed thinks it doesn’t need fixing.
_________________
Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2439
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not convinced by the argument for a new centre back, although it's tough to argue after today's showing.

A different manager would see the 'issues' with the defence and see the potential of our attack. I believe this team could out score most opposition if given the chance. The attitude the vermin had over recent years. It has built confidence and hope amoungst the supporters that has transmitted to the players. This negative approach from Jose invites pressure onto an already shakey defence. Also, when the players give the ball away so easily it will expose even the best defences.

I don't think the view that the players have stopped playing for Jose is wide of the mark. I'm sure opinions on this will differ, but mine is that Jose's openly critical approach has cost him and the relationship has reached the point of no return. Only time will tell I suppose
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
The Dave



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1476

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
Zoo, it’s not the back four, it’s the centre backs. We have 5x centre-backs that would not get into most of the teams we would consider rivals. The manager tried to resolve it, Ed, our new Director of Football claimed the manager wasn’t get the best out of what we had available. Ed must have been watching different games to me, as we haven’t replaced Rio, Vidic, Neville or Evra and not even SAF could polish these turds.

I’m going to give Shaw the benefit of the doubt, as I am Dalot and Bailly. But Jones, Smalling, Rojo and Linderlof are simply not good enough and not one of them is a leader of the line or vocal enough. We need a defensive rock and leader there, Jose needs his John Terry type player.

When SAF started at United he sorted the defence out first. It appears Jose will get to do it last, if at all. A 4th manager since 2013 will not fix this if Ed thinks it doesn’t need fixing.


What do we do then? Apparently we were prepared to pay £100m+ for Varane but Madrid didn't want to sell. Godin told us to fuck off. This aint the Rio/Vidic era - changes in offside laws and 'protecting' fancy dan players mean top quality defenders are few and far between, and most of em play for clubs where they earn as much as they would at United, stand better chances of winning trophies, and don't have to play for a cunt like Mourinho - why on earth would they come to us? Should we just pay through the nose for the likes of Maguire and hope they come good?

And who's to say that if we DID get some defenders on his wishlist they'd work out anyway? Our centre backs today were both Mourinho signings and played like schoolchildren. Pogba still looks a fraction of the player he signed too.

If Jose NEEDS these defenders and can't get em: quit. We'll bring in somebody with a bit more flexibility about their tactics (and some players might be more willing to move to us too).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3686

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dave wrote:
Chubby wrote:
Zoo, it’s not the back four, it’s the centre backs. We have 5x centre-backs that would not get into most of the teams we would consider rivals. The manager tried to resolve it, Ed, our new Director of Football claimed the manager wasn’t get the best out of what we had available. Ed must have been watching different games to me, as we haven’t replaced Rio, Vidic, Neville or Evra and not even SAF could polish these turds.

I’m going to give Shaw the benefit of the doubt, as I am Dalot and Bailly. But Jones, Smalling, Rojo and Linderlof are simply not good enough and not one of them is a leader of the line or vocal enough. We need a defensive rock and leader there, Jose needs his John Terry type player.

When SAF started at United he sorted the defence out first. It appears Jose will get to do it last, if at all. A 4th manager since 2013 will not fix this if Ed thinks it doesn’t need fixing.


What do we do then? Apparently we were prepared to pay £100m+ for Varane but Madrid didn't want to sell. Godin told us to fuck off. This aint the Rio/Vidic era - changes in offside laws and 'protecting' fancy dan players mean top quality defenders are few and far between, and most of em play for clubs where they earn as much as they would at United, stand better chances of winning trophies, and don't have to play for a cunt like Mourinho - why on earth would they come to us? Should we just pay through the nose for the likes of Maguire and hope they come good?

And who's to say that if we DID get some defenders on his wishlist they'd work out anyway? Our centre backs today were both Mourinho signings and played like schoolchildren. Pogba still looks a fraction of the player he signed too.

If Jose NEEDS these defenders and can't get em: quit. We'll bring in somebody with a bit more flexibility about their tactics (and some players might be more willing to move to us too).


What greatness do you reckon another coach could get out of Smalling, Jones, Rojo? They are simply not good enough, they never have been and they never will be. We can’t base a solid defence on any of them, which in turn means our fairly abundant attacking talent doesn’t express itself. Listen to Gary Neville post-match, he nails it imho.

Jose is part responsible here, Bailly and Lindelof are not a pairing at present. They may be in future but they both lack experience and would be better playing with a mature, leading CB - there are still a few of them around and the club fucked us up by not getting one.
_________________
Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6774

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this will be Jose argument when it starts to unravel, the fact we are debating the defence will be what Jose wants,

"i didnt get the centre halves or the players i wanted ".

which is pathetic when you consider he bought Bailly and lindrolf , sold Rojo and he bought Matic to sit in front of them.

both centre halfs were shite yesterday ,DeGae didnt exactly do very well with his chip out straight into the centre of the field ...... but over all last season for example we defended well, we had the second best defensive record in the league.
spurs, vermin, chelsea, arsenal all have some quite dodgy centre backs in their sides, and city have Otemendi for fucks sake. Wink


the truth is, the side overall is not right, players thrown at positions , played out of position, and playing without a real team tactic, Brightons defenders would not get in our side, and yet we only managed 1 shot on target second half.

our defence isn't the problem, it's one of them.

the biggest one is the guy buying/choosing/picking /training/coaching the players is trying to play the game the wrong way.
_________________
People say I'm condescending. That means i talk down to people
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sir Harold Monk



Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 649
Location: Peterborough

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject: The problem is Reply with quote

We appear to be missing the point.

If we are ever reduced to arguing whether our back four are relevant when we play the likes of brighton away then we are a million miles away from where we ought to be.

City and dippers could have gone to brighton yesterday with four oap’s at tge back and nobody would be talking about it today.
_________________
An owl boiled in cardboard never drops a claw !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3686

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: The problem is Reply with quote

Sir Harold Monk wrote:
We appear to be missing the point.

If we are ever reduced to arguing whether our back four are relevant when we play the likes of brighton away then we are a million miles away from where we ought to be.

City and dippers could have gone to brighton yesterday with four oap’s at tge back and nobody would be talking about it today.


City I probably agree, but less so with the Dippers - City have beaten most teams before kick off, like we used to enjoy. Murdering Scum, until they got van Dyke, this is exactly the sort of game they would have lost 4-3. Sometimes all it takes is one player for all the disconnected parts to slot together, we enjoyed the same with Cantona. Getting a CB was the most important signing and we royally fucked it up.
_________________
Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5945
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
Zoo, it’s not the back four, it’s the centre backs. We have 5x centre-backs that would not get into most of the teams we would consider rivals. The manager tried to resolve it, Ed, our new Director of Football claimed the manager wasn’t get the best out of what we had available. Ed must have been watching different games to me, as we haven’t replaced Rio, Vidic, Neville or Evra and not even SAF could polish these turds.


Sorry we'll have to agree to disagree, Young, Shaw, Darmian & Valencia are not good enough either, not for a side aiming to finish top 3 in the league, 1/4 of the CL and have a cup final day out.

The first goal yesterday started with Shaw being miles out of position so they got in behind us. This is why Jose hates him, he is so ill disciplined with his runs forward and so lazy at getting back into position. Jose has spent £85m on defenders so far on Bailly, Lindelhof and Dalot, Woodward and the fans have every right to question why we need to spend even more just to be able to finish in the top 4 let alone challenge for leagues and champions leagues. Something is wrong somewhere, the scouting, the recruiting, the negotiating.....we've paid too much for too little but who's fault is that? We deserve and need answers.

Would you really trust Jose with another £100m for Varane or £60m for Alex Sandro or heavens to God £70m for Harry fucking McGuire (his actual real name that by the way).

This is not planned spending, this is not building a team, this is not balanced, well thought out, reasoned risk taking, this is knee jerk, panic splurging.

We bought Matic as a defensive minded holding player but apparently that wasn't enough so we bought Fred as well and we have McTominay (the most limited young kid we have) and we re-signed Fellaini on more money than he had been on before. This is abject panic stricken joke recruitment. There's no plan, there is also no evidence what so ever that any of these players will stop the rot. Would you really have sanctioned another £70m for Milinkovic-Savic? I bloody wouldn't.

The only real question is why is Jose still in a job given that the board clearly don't trust him and the players clearly don't respond to him?
_________________
The situation regarding spoons remains unchanged, if I see one, I will kill it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3686

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: The problem is Reply with quote

Sir Harold Monk wrote:
We appear to be missing the point.

If we are ever reduced to arguing whether our back four are relevant when we play the likes of brighton away then we are a million miles away from where we ought to be.

City and dippers could have gone to brighton yesterday with four oap’s at tge back and nobody would be talking about it today.


City I probably agree, but less so with the Dippers - City have beaten most teams before kick off, like we used to enjoy. Murdering Scum, until they got van Dyke, this is exactly the sort of game they would have lost 4-3. Sometimes all it takes is one player for all the disconnected parts to slot together, we enjoyed the same with Cantona. Getting a CB was the most important signing and we royally fucked it up.
_________________
Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2439
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: The problem is Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:


City I probably agree, but less so with the Dippers - City have beaten most teams before kick off, like we used to enjoy. Murdering Scum, until they got van Dyke, this is exactly the sort of game they would have lost 4-3. Sometimes all it takes is one player for all the disconnected parts to slot together, we enjoyed the same with Cantona. Getting a CB was the most important signing and we royally fucked it up.


The difference with the dippers is their manager has earned them plenty of goodwill by playing decent football and a defeat would've been accepted as a bad day at the office. The dippers may have lost that game 4-3, but not in the manor we lost. Apart from Rashford and Lingard who showed plenty of heart, nobody came out that game with any credit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    m-u-f-c.co.uk Forum Index -> m-u-f-c General Forum All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group