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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2439
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Spurs Reply with quote

I reckon we'll get the win Shocked

It's the way things go for us post Fergie. Just when it's all doom and gloom we put in a performance/get a result that makes things feel a little more positive. We'll then win a few other games, build a bit of momentum, then lose against a team trying to avoid relegation.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we’ll get a draw, followed up by a loss to Burnley. This will leave us near the bottom of the table going into the Int’l break. I just can’t see this team pulling themselves out of the malaise that is surrounding the club at present, who is going to grab it by the scruff of the neck and show leadership? Lukaku is the only leader out there.
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Jarzinio



Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 855
Location: Manchesterish

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last 10 against them Won 5 Lost 4 Drawn 1
Tough to call and the way we are at present.....we will probably school them and Jose will be a hero for another 7 days
Or they will bury us and Jose will blame the lack of transfers,the kids, the media, the weather, the grass,the ref and me Rolling Eyes
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we will beat spurs

the reason - we are an inconsistent side, full of big time charlies , managed by an ego maniac non of whom can be arsed against
Huddersfield- west brom -Brighton-Newcastle-west ham-seville etc etc etc

but are prepared to try a bit when we face a top side,

in truth - we have become the new L1verp00l Shocked Evil or Very Mad Embarassed
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m42her



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john smith wrote:
we will beat spurs

the reason - we are an inconsistent side, full of big time charlies , managed by an ego maniac non of whom can be arsed against
Huddersfield- west brom -Brighton-Newcastle-west ham-seville etc etc etc

but are prepared to try a bit when we face a top side,

in truth - we have become the new L1verp00l Shocked Evil or Very Mad Embarassed


Pretty much this. At worst, a low score draw but the players will rouse themselves up for this. And Jose will use it as some of of vindication of himself in some way. Before we go to Burnley next week and lose to a route 1 goal and a breakaway from losing possession.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
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Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The changes to the starting 11 are understandable but I can't help but think the same team should be put in and told "prove you deserve to be at this club".

Sometimes players have bad games. I'm not convinced dropping them is always the right choice. And if the players dropped see Pogba playing, they have a right to be a bit pissed off, don't they?
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
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Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pissed off!!! Not because we lost. Tonight was just one of those nights. We deserved so much more. I'm pissed off because that was the level of performance I know this squad can deliver. A level of performance we deserve to and should see every week. A performance that entertains and more often than not would get the win.
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dark-shade-of-red



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 5769
Location: Wiltshire

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand how even with the defenders we have, conceded very few goals last season and already we've conceded 7 in 3 games.

The confidence is shot.

Jose has absolutely lost the dressing room as it were and as for that joker upstairs, he needs to take long hard look at himself and understand if he truly believes he can lead the club in the right direction.

I'm not saying #JoseOut but I am saying that he will perhaps be gone as soon as Halloween at this rate.

Two defeats already. Fuck me.

To end on a positive, Shaw's performance delighted me.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3686

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Southern Red wrote:
Pissed off!!! Not because we lost. Tonight was just one of those nights. We deserved so much more. I'm pissed off because that was the level of performance I know this squad can deliver. A level of performance we deserve to and should see every week. A performance that entertains and more often than not would get the win.


But proves once again that our defence, when not protected by a defensively minded midfield, will ship goals like they’re going out of fashion. Never a 3-0 game but that’s where we are at present. Ed Woodward has plenty to answer for as our centre-backs can’t be relied upon, which hinders us going forward with confidence.
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Dee



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 657

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better performance for the first 30 mins then reverts back to type. Defensive shambles again, including Matic. I thought Shaw and Lingard played well and maybe Fred. Was Pogba on the pitch, and why can't Lukaku hold the ball up which his physical size suggests he should do with ease?

Shaw - maybe if Jose had put his arm around him earlier, rather than doing it now, Luke may have delivered the performances last season too.
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4515

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So; we had a team that seemed motivated. They ran and tackled and seemed brave.

So what is wrong ?
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2439
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
Southern Red wrote:
Pissed off!!! Not because we lost. Tonight was just one of those nights. We deserved so much more. I'm pissed off because that was the level of performance I know this squad can deliver. A level of performance we deserve to and should see every week. A performance that entertains and more often than not would get the win.


But proves once again that our defence, when not protected by a defensively minded midfield, will ship goals like they’re going out of fashion. Never a 3-0 game but that’s where we are at present. Ed Woodward has plenty to answer for as our centre-backs can’t be relied upon, which hinders us going forward with confidence.


I've never argued the defence wasn't weak. But it's no excuse for losing to teams like Brighton, WBA and huddersfield. When playing against the top 4/6 I have no problem with being a bit more defensive.

Jose seems to have his get out of jail free card now. Even the players have brought into it. Yet this same defence had the second best (?) defensive record last season. We didn't concede to many under LVG either. We've also got Fred to bolster the defensive side of things. If Jose is a good coach that defence would have improved, despite its obvious limitations. Instead it is getting worse.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3686

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Southern Red wrote:
Chubby wrote:
Southern Red wrote:
Pissed off!!! Not because we lost. Tonight was just one of those nights. We deserved so much more. I'm pissed off because that was the level of performance I know this squad can deliver. A level of performance we deserve to and should see every week. A performance that entertains and more often than not would get the win.


But proves once again that our defence, when not protected by a defensively minded midfield, will ship goals like they’re going out of fashion. Never a 3-0 game but that’s where we are at present. Ed Woodward has plenty to answer for as our centre-backs can’t be relied upon, which hinders us going forward with confidence.


I've never argued the defence wasn't weak. But it's no excuse for losing to teams like Brighton, WBA and huddersfield. When playing against the top 4/6 I have no problem with being a bit more defensive.

Jose seems to have his get out of jail free card now. Even the players have brought into it. Yet this same defence had the second best (?) defensive record last season. We didn't concede to many under LVG either. We've also got Fred to bolster the defensive side of things. If Jose is a good coach that defence would have improved, despite its obvious limitations. Instead it is getting worse.


If you truly believe that the reason we shipped so few goals under LvG and Jose (until so far this season) was to do with defensive excellence then you’ve been watching different football to me.

Under LvG we played with no flair and typically an 8-man defensive unit that was drilled to keep possession at all costs. One of those costs was not playing the ball forward.

Jose has adopted a very similar style, when he’s changed it we’ve shipped goals. In fairness to Jose he has been more forward thinking than LvG.

Neither coach wanted to play this way is my guess, but chose too based on the personnel available. Prepare to watch United Park the bus in the next game, back to basics, may get a much needed result but will be boring as fuck to watch - which is not what we want either.
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Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2439
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
Southern Red wrote:
Chubby wrote:
Southern Red wrote:
Pissed off!!! Not because we lost. Tonight was just one of those nights. We deserved so much more. I'm pissed off because that was the level of performance I know this squad can deliver. A level of performance we deserve to and should see every week. A performance that entertains and more often than not would get the win.


But proves once again that our defence, when not protected by a defensively minded midfield, will ship goals like they’re going out of fashion. Never a 3-0 game but that’s where we are at present. Ed Woodward has plenty to answer for as our centre-backs can’t be relied upon, which hinders us going forward with confidence.


I've never argued the defence wasn't weak. But it's no excuse for losing to teams like Brighton, WBA and huddersfield. When playing against the top 4/6 I have no problem with being a bit more defensive.

Jose seems to have his get out of jail free card now. Even the players have brought into it. Yet this same defence had the second best (?) defensive record last season. We didn't concede to many under LVG either. We've also got Fred to bolster the defensive side of things. If Jose is a good coach that defence would have improved, despite its obvious limitations. Instead it is getting worse.


If you truly believe that the reason we shipped so few goals under LvG and Jose (until so far this season) was to do with defensive excellence then you’ve been watching different football to me.

Under LvG we played with no flair and typically an 8-man defensive unit that was drilled to keep possession at all costs. One of those costs was not playing the ball forward.

Jose has adopted a very similar style, when he’s changed it we’ve shipped goals. In fairness to Jose he has been more forward thinking than LvG.

Neither coach wanted to play this way is my guess, but chose too based on the personnel available. Prepare to watch United Park the bus in the next game, back to basics, may get a much needed result but will be boring as fuck to watch - which is not what we want either.


Don't get me wrong, I know why we play so negatively and that's the reason we haven't shipped goals over recent years. BUT is that defence the worst in the league? No. I'd argue it's about mid-table level.

When we look at our attack (perhaps I have too much faith in it), Lukaku, a 25+ goals a season striker. Martial and Rashford, who showed great potential under LVG and now stagnated. Sanchez, arsenals best player a season or 2 ago, Pobga, NFT. Mata, who was Chelsea's best player before Jose rejoined them... our attack should be one of the best in the league. And if anyone wanted to argue about the ability of any of those players, the argument for another CB is lost. We'd need a new team. Not a centre back. And would be very concerning considering how much we've spent in recent years.

When playing any of our top 4 rivals I expect us to be defensive. It's boring, I hate watching it and I moan like fuck about it, but I get it. But when we are playing Brighton we might lose, but they should never look better than us.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3686

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Southern Red wrote:
Chubby wrote:
Southern Red wrote:
Chubby wrote:
Southern Red wrote:
Pissed off!!! Not because we lost. Tonight was just one of those nights. We deserved so much more. I'm pissed off because that was the level of performance I know this squad can deliver. A level of performance we deserve to and should see every week. A performance that entertains and more often than not would get the win.


But proves once again that our defence, when not protected by a defensively minded midfield, will ship goals like they’re going out of fashion. Never a 3-0 game but that’s where we are at present. Ed Woodward has plenty to answer for as our centre-backs can’t be relied upon, which hinders us going forward with confidence.


I've never argued the defence wasn't weak. But it's no excuse for losing to teams like Brighton, WBA and huddersfield. When playing against the top 4/6 I have no problem with being a bit more defensive.

Jose seems to have his get out of jail free card now. Even the players have brought into it. Yet this same defence had the second best (?) defensive record last season. We didn't concede to many under LVG either. We've also got Fred to bolster the defensive side of things. If Jose is a good coach that defence would have improved, despite its obvious limitations. Instead it is getting worse.


If you truly believe that the reason we shipped so few goals under LvG and Jose (until so far this season) was to do with defensive excellence then you’ve been watching different football to me.

Under LvG we played with no flair and typically an 8-man defensive unit that was drilled to keep possession at all costs. One of those costs was not playing the ball forward.

Jose has adopted a very similar style, when he’s changed it we’ve shipped goals. In fairness to Jose he has been more forward thinking than LvG.

Neither coach wanted to play this way is my guess, but chose too based on the personnel available. Prepare to watch United Park the bus in the next game, back to basics, may get a much needed result but will be boring as fuck to watch - which is not what we want either.


Don't get me wrong, I know why we play so negatively and that's the reason we haven't shipped goals over recent years. BUT is that defence the worst in the league? No. I'd argue it's about mid-table level.

When we look at our attack (perhaps I have too much faith in it), Lukaku, a 25+ goals a season striker. Martial and Rashford, who showed great potential under LVG and now stagnated. Sanchez, arsenals best player a season or 2 ago, Pobga, NFT. Mata, who was Chelsea's best player before Jose rejoined them... our attack should be one of the best in the league. And if anyone wanted to argue about the ability of any of those players, the argument for another CB is lost. We'd need a new team. Not a centre back. And would be very concerning considering how much we've spent in recent years.

When playing any of our top 4 rivals I expect us to be defensive. It's boring, I hate watching it and I moan like fuck about it, but I get it. But when we are playing Brighton we might lose, but they should never look better than us.


Where to start mate, you’ve created so many strawman arguments there.

1. You agree we play negatively because of our defence - that’s all I’ve said, so we’re in agreement.

2. Nobody said our defence was the worst in the league, it’s just not anywhere near as good as our rivals at home or in Europe. No matter what coaches do you can’t polish a turd, you can’t even roll our turd in glitter to make it look better. Our CBs are simply not good enough. Watching Alderweireld keep Lukaku quiet was painful to watch, as was seeing Maguire score at the weekend - both would have made a huge difference.

3. There is nothing wrong with our forwards, we’re a bit light on the right-hand side but it will never express itself if it’s a) protecting a weak back line and b) shit scared of losing the ball and relying on the CBs to cover.

4. Nobody expects glorious football against our main rivals, but we do expect our defence to stand steady against a 35 year old journeyman at Brighton and for United to look bothered, play with energy and imagination.
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