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Everton - (and arsenal )
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3685

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Southern Red wrote:
Chubby wrote:
The Dave wrote:
Chubby wrote:
Really? Other teams have invested in the areas they identified as weak, we didn’t and defensively we are mid-table at best, certainly not on a par with any other team with champions league aspirations. That speaks to the disconnect between owners, board and players. Jose will be gone by next season, we will have another manager operating with one or two arms tied behind his back. We will not finish near the top 4 with the defence we have, more likely bottom half of table.


Oh behave. You really listen to all that claptrap that comes out of Mourinho's gob don't you? We've invested (a lot) in a bunch of players - including defenders he's identified - in the last few years, and as much as we could still improve I reckon a decent manager would've made much more of this squad. Hopefully we'll finally make a decent appointment and see.


He has a point on being backed. He said 5 players, we got Fred, a 3rd choice keeper and a young Portuguese lad that’s one for the future. Does this sound like a huge improvement? Ed Woodward either needed to back him or sack him, he did neither. We’re now royally fucked as a result. You should really watch our defenders play, the amount of free headers we give away is beyond a joke, as is any notion that Smalling is United quality.


Is our defence any good? No.
Is it as bad as Jose wants us to believe? No
Would we be any better if we had got a defender or two? Debatable, but I'm not convinced.

Jose is so determined to get his new defender it seems he has given up trying to improve what he currently has.


Not convinced that’s the case. Linderlof is certainly improving and would likely be a whole lot better with a quality partner by his side. He was solid and defended with authority against Everton, certainly an improving player.

Smalling, Jones and Rojo are simply not good enough.
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 6772

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a few games ago , linderfolf was absolutley woeful in one particular game (can't remember which it was), the comments on this site were all about how shite he was,
"not good enough for this level " i beleieve was the jist
last game he was excellent and now looks the part ..

a few years ago Jones was the new duncan edwards .

a few months ago Rojo was a beast and in a game and had Drogba in his pocket .

Baily also has shown flashes of brilliance , and equal flashes of shite.

Smalling is regarded by many pundits - and england managers - as a good defender .



Joes said he wanted a new centre half because he had no faith in what he had - well that's really going to inspire the players he had, he then chased Macguire - Harry Fucking macguire for £70 million !!!!!!! beacuse he played well against Columbia in the world cup
it also came out that he had instructed the cenrte backs NOT to pass it out through midfield as he felt they were not good enough - If David Moyes had said that we would have had planes flying over with MOYES OUT !!
he shows so little faith he plays two defensive midfeilders in front of the defence - at home - to the likes of Seville !!

what did he do recently to shore up the defence mid way through a game, he moved a young midfielder Scott Mactominay to play as a third centre half ,and left Bailly sat on the bench .


i can't be arsed to look through their teams , but city , spurs, vermin, chelsea and arsenal do not have the worlds finest centre halves , and we do not have the worlds worst .

what they have on paper is no better than what we have- what they have on grass is a team tactic that makes the players they have look and play like proper defenders

what we have is a team that loses the ball in dangerous areas so much that our defence is constantly on alert for the next crisis,

many teams come to Old trafford for example managed by the likes of Sean Dysche and he sets them up to defend and their defenders often walk off looking like world beaters ,

we have a manager who is incapable of getting the players to be natural and simply play to their overall strengths and abilities , he does not seem to have a tactically aware team, we don't counter attack, we don't retain possession , we don't swamp teams with high pressing. we just ruin around, give the ball away and usually get a penalty which helps us take the lead... Rolling Eyes

blaming our defence for the position we are in is not even half the story imho.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linderlof is improving, didn't say he was great but did say he was authoritative against Everton. He was good against Juventus too, as he was against Watford. He's improving.

Jones looked to have fantastic potential in his first two seasons, but a succession of injuries has meant his career simply hasn't developed. He's played 146 league games since he joined United, that's a shocking return.

A few months ago Rojo had Drogba in his pocket? WTF are you on about? Laughing Drogba hasn't played in England since 2015. Rojo has played 30 league games in 2 1/2 seasons, zero so far this season I believe.

I like Bailly, I think like Martial he needs to be played and he needs to be trusted.

Smalling is not getting picked for England, he's a good defender, but he's not good enough for United. What top 4 team would he walk into? Answer is none.

Is Jose wrong, based on all of the evidence you see plus the games you watch, to say that we need new CBs? It's bonkers to suggest otherwise. I think we need 2x new ones, I think Jones, Smalling and Rojo should be finding new clubs.

Nobody is saying our defenders are the world's worst, don't be daft. What people are saying, with some conviction and some semblance of grip on time and reality, is that our CBs are not the standard we need them to be, and no magician of a manager or coach is going to be able to polish this particular turd, he roles it in glitter by being forced to protect them with a negative midfield set up.

Who has blamed the defence solely for the mess we're in? The problem is top-down at the club, from the owners, to the board, to the manager, to the players, to the fans. Fixing the team is an immediate concern, the immediate concern that SAF addressed when he first joined as you can't be successful without a solid defence, and this is even more important in the modern game where high press is utilised heavily. We have to have defenders that can a) defend and b) play passing football - we don't have much of either of those, which is why we sit with 2x holding midfield players, to protect the defence and to counter the high press and to play the ball out from the back, which in turn means we have fewer numbers further up field and we lack the ability to break teams down. Most of our in-game issues stem from a poor defensive setup, fix that and we will play better, more creative, quicker, incisive football as our creative players will be 20-30 yards further forward and pressing the opposition more, at present we're forced to hold a deeper sitting formation.
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Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.


Last edited by Chubby on Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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john smith



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the Rojo - Drogba thing was probably over 2 years ago ...lol

i sometimes relate to stuff that happened last year in my head, and my wife will say "that was 5 years ago you silly old twat"

it's old age i reckon . Shocked Wink
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From The Dave


I watched MOTD this weekend and am convinced that two thirds of the teams in the Prem play better football than us; at least three quarters of em are more organised). That's purely down to the manager (and team) - and I'm genuinely baffled as to what the fuck they actually do in training every day.

Agreed. There is no management, no coaching going on.
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m42her



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 2083

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don’t need the world’s best defenders.

We simply need defenders who can cope with the majority of attackers they come up against in the league. This season, they have not come close to doing so.

The first half yesterday should end any talk of Smalling being in consideration.
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Dee



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smalling is soft as shit as a defender. I still think a Bailly and Lindelof central defensive partnership could work.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
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Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen a few centreback pairing work... jones/Rojo, Rojo/bailiey, bailiey/Jones and I'm sure Jones/Smalling wouldn't fill us with the dread it does today?

Good centre back pairings grow from playing together consistantly. A problem we have is that two of those defenders struggle to get a run of games as they are always injured... We then have the problem of a lack of trust from the manager. Lindlehof and Bailiey get dropped like a brick the minute they make a mistake making and rarely get a chance to put right the wrongs in the next game.

The only defender who Jose seems to trust is Smalling, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one confused by this?

I'm still baffled as to why we let Blind go. Even if he wasn't as good as jones or Rojo (a big if imo) he was always fit to play, and only really got caught out by a lack of pace.
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3685

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he let Blind go on the assumption that 1 or 2 new CBs were incoming, not convinced he'd have allowed him to leave otherwise. Blind lacked pace but his first 10 yards was played in his head, an intelligent player that even without pace rarely got done by a lack of it.
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