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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3682

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pep is a great coach, no question. Pep has improved players, no question. Pep has improved players by 30%, has he the absolute fuck as like. Any one that suggests he has knows fuck all about football. That is all.
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Stig



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 4515

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

are they a bit better than when they arrived ?
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3682

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stig wrote:
are they a bit better than when they arrived ?


He’s improved them, no question but let’s be very clear, no established elite sportsman should have the capacity to improve by 30% through coaching, those sort of gains are bonkers and more likely to have been arbitrarily pulled out of someone’s arse, rather than based on any sports science. Performance improvement in elite sports is measured in single figure percentage points, usually 1-2%.
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Nic... I dare say you could kick everyone's arse on Mastermind with United as your specialist subject.... Pedantic wank-wipe.
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Nicolae



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 11308

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
He’s improved them, no question but let’s be very clear, no established elite sportsman should have the capacity to improve by 30% through coaching, those sort of gains are bonkers and more likely to have been arbitrarily pulled out of someone’s arse, rather than based on any sports science. Performance improvement in elite sports is measured in single figure percentage points, usually 1-2%.


Sanchez has gone MORE than 30% backwards since joining your hoof ball crew Wink
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Chubby



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 3682

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicolae wrote:
Chubby wrote:
He’s improved them, no question but let’s be very clear, no established elite sportsman should have the capacity to improve by 30% through coaching, those sort of gains are bonkers and more likely to have been arbitrarily pulled out of someone’s arse, rather than based on any sports science. Performance improvement in elite sports is measured in single figure percentage points, usually 1-2%.


Sanchez has gone MORE than 30% backwards since joining your hoof ball crew Wink


All joking aside (and I don't disagree that he's been shite) his form had dipped already for Arsenal and we acquired a mardy player whose peak form had been in decline, assumption was it was because he'd spat his dummy out, whereas it's as likely that he'd peaked. I think his signing has done a number of things, it unsettled Martial and Rashford for starters when they were both flying and it forced a formation change and unbalanced the team. I can't imagine Pep buys players that require a formation change, I suspect strongly he only buys players that fit into what he needs. I suspect we only bought Sanchez because you lot wanted him, same as Fred. That is probably all of the compliment you need for the work that goes on behind the scenes in terms of scouting talent. In a perverse way it speaks of having more confidence in City's recruitment than our own - hard to argue otherwise either.
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2437
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:
Nicolae wrote:
Chubby wrote:
He’s improved them, no question but let’s be very clear, no established elite sportsman should have the capacity to improve by 30% through coaching, those sort of gains are bonkers and more likely to have been arbitrarily pulled out of someone’s arse, rather than based on any sports science. Performance improvement in elite sports is measured in single figure percentage points, usually 1-2%.


Sanchez has gone MORE than 30% backwards since joining your hoof ball crew Wink


All joking aside (and I don't disagree that he's been shite) his form had dipped already for Arsenal and we acquired a mardy player whose peak form had been in decline, assumption was it was because he'd spat his dummy out, whereas it's as likely that he'd peaked. I think his signing has done a number of things, it unsettled Martial and Rashford for starters when they were both flying and it forced a formation change and unbalanced the team. I can't imagine Pep buys players that require a formation change, I suspect strongly he only buys players that fit into what he needs. I suspect we only bought Sanchez because you lot wanted him, same as Fred. That is probably all of the compliment you need for the work that goes on behind the scenes in terms of scouting talent. In a perverse way it speaks of having more confidence in City's recruitment than our own - hard to argue otherwise either.


This!!
Signing Sanchez was completely unnecessary. Although he was free he's cost us a small fortune in wages, which could have paid the wages of 2 new centre backs. I'd also argue his high wages, combined with his poor output, will make contract negotiations for current and new players far more difficult. And to make it worse, we'd unlikely be able to get rid of him until his contract expires. No club would pay him the wages he is on and I'm pretty sure he won't take a cut
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Nicolae



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 11308

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well free if you just forget the £27m player you swapped.

And of course the £20m signing on fee

Oh and the £10m agents fee

So sort of £57m free then?

Wink
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Southern Red



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 2437
Location: Haywards Heath

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicolae wrote:
Well free if you just forget the £27m player you swapped.

And of course the £20m signing on fee

Oh and the £10m agents fee

So sort of £57m free then?

Wink


Signing on and agents fees are paid regardless.

Admittedly I forgot about Mhky... in hindsight, we should've just kept him..
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Zoolander



Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 5944
Location: Duck Fat City Limits

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chubby wrote:


All joking aside (and I don't disagree that he's been shite) his form had dipped already for Arsenal and we acquired a mardy player whose peak form had been in decline, assumption was it was because he'd spat his dummy out, whereas it's as likely that he'd peaked. I think his signing has done a number of things, it unsettled Martial and Rashford for starters when they were both flying and it forced a formation change and unbalanced the team. I can't imagine Pep buys players that require a formation change, I suspect strongly he only buys players that fit into what he needs. I suspect we only bought Sanchez because you lot wanted him, same as Fred. That is probably all of the compliment you need for the work that goes on behind the scenes in terms of scouting talent. In a perverse way it speaks of having more confidence in City's recruitment than our own - hard to argue otherwise either.


And this in a nutshell has been Utd's biggest single problem for the last 7 years (yes when SAF was still here) we bought badly, really badly.

We no longer identified 'Utd' players, we no longer bought in players that were a bit raw but 18 months later were stars. We scaled our scouting back, we scaled our youth set up back and we've suffered.

Pep is very good but it's the team that does it, it's the men in the background identifying the players, finding out when their contract is up, seeing what they are like and ensuring that they fill the areas where improvement (or more choice) is required. If Pep has hand built that set up good luck to him but I don't think he has so it's a case of owners that get it right and owners who get it wrong.

United owners are (as many people said would happen) killing the club because we've spent £650m+ since SAF left and we've become slightly better than Stoke.
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